1 00:00:44,350 --> 00:00:41,689 explore the bazaars are your e-ticket 2 00:00:47,630 --> 00:00:44,360 ride into the world of the paranoid 3 00:00:51,939 --> 00:00:47,640 strap yourself in as we traverse the 4 00:00:57,079 --> 00:00:51,949 universe exploring the unexplained UFO s 5 00:01:00,799 --> 00:00:57,089 ghosts lost world cryptozoology as well 6 00:01:05,030 --> 00:01:00,809 as other dimensions it's time to take 7 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:05,040 back the night last night now your 8 00:01:27,210 --> 00:01:07,290 electrifying hosts of exploring the 9 00:01:34,810 --> 00:01:31,600 ha gosh darn bring her back put my damn 10 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:34,820 do it back down come on bring back 11 00:01:41,170 --> 00:01:38,170 Yeller you go away you big big ugly bird 12 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:41,180 well I guess I've really lost it tonight 13 00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:45,050 right but hey we got we got a crazy show 14 00:01:52,390 --> 00:01:48,710 this evening it is going to be talking 15 00:01:55,389 --> 00:01:52,400 about the Mothman that famous winged 16 00:01:58,210 --> 00:01:55,399 creature that was seen for several years 17 00:02:01,180 --> 00:01:58,220 down into town around the town of Point 18 00:02:03,850 --> 00:02:01,190 Pleasant West Virginia of course John 19 00:02:06,580 --> 00:02:03,860 keel wrote about it in his famous book 20 00:02:10,630 --> 00:02:06,590 mothman prophecies that was later made 21 00:02:14,380 --> 00:02:10,640 into a movie starring Richard Gere good 22 00:02:19,390 --> 00:02:14,390 area and we were going to have on this 23 00:02:21,810 --> 00:02:19,400 evening surance saw who is the niece of 24 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:21,820 mary hyre but unfortunately there was a 25 00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:23,450 something that came up at the last 26 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:27,110 minute and she isn't able to make it but 27 00:02:30,699 --> 00:02:28,730 we're going to be talking about Mothman 28 00:02:34,570 --> 00:02:30,709 and we're going to be talking about the 29 00:02:36,550 --> 00:02:34,580 dreaded men in black so that the title 30 00:02:39,670 --> 00:02:36,560 of the show is fearing the men in black 31 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:39,680 and flying with the Mothman and our 32 00:02:48,070 --> 00:02:43,130 guest tonight our old buddy Nick Redford 33 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:48,080 down there in the dallas texas area and 34 00:02:53,590 --> 00:02:50,090 i understand the Nick you've been 35 00:02:56,530 --> 00:02:53,600 fighting off tornadoes all day yeah it's 36 00:02:59,229 --> 00:02:56,540 been one of those exciting days in a 37 00:03:02,819 --> 00:02:59,239 strange way there was a tornado alert 38 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:02,829 and as few rooms got pulled off in 39 00:03:10,210 --> 00:03:06,890 downtown Fort Worth and again sides head 40 00:03:12,310 --> 00:03:10,220 north luckily and then started to just 41 00:03:13,990 --> 00:03:12,320 sort of evaporate out and I think pretty 42 00:03:16,509 --> 00:03:14,000 much it's gone now but sort of five 43 00:03:17,979 --> 00:03:16,519 o'clock six o'clock when I emailed you 44 00:03:20,620 --> 00:03:17,989 just to let you know in case there are 45 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:20,630 any electrical issues I mean it was it 46 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:23,209 was a major storm brewing then whilst 47 00:03:27,580 --> 00:03:25,610 the normal day in Texas yeah the weather 48 00:03:31,199 --> 00:03:27,590 the weather has certainly been acting 49 00:03:34,990 --> 00:03:31,209 peculiar lately in fact you notice 50 00:03:35,890 --> 00:03:35,000 fellas that the weather is now usually 51 00:03:38,020 --> 00:03:35,900 at 52 00:03:39,429 --> 00:03:38,030 but the news you know the six o'clock or 53 00:03:43,750 --> 00:03:39,439 seven o'clock news or whatever you have 54 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:43,760 a out there it's usually the main lead 55 00:03:49,929 --> 00:03:45,890 story with some flood or some 56 00:03:52,420 --> 00:03:49,939 catastrophe or tornado or hurricane or a 57 00:03:54,250 --> 00:03:52,430 snow I know in parts of the country now 58 00:03:57,580 --> 00:03:54,260 they've already got you know a few 59 00:03:59,890 --> 00:03:57,590 inches of snow on the ground so I'm sure 60 00:04:03,039 --> 00:03:59,900 we have a lot to look forward to this 61 00:04:06,699 --> 00:04:03,049 winter as far as the weather goes but 62 00:04:09,369 --> 00:04:06,709 this is not the six o'clock news this is 63 00:04:11,830 --> 00:04:09,379 exploring the bizarre and between the 64 00:04:16,270 --> 00:04:11,840 Nick and I Nick Redford and I we have 65 00:04:19,390 --> 00:04:16,280 written five books on the men in black 66 00:04:22,750 --> 00:04:19,400 and nick has a new one that just came 67 00:04:25,719 --> 00:04:22,760 out a couple of weeks ago is that right 68 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:25,729 naked about two weeks old now yeah buddy 69 00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:27,650 afraid to fall probably closer to a 70 00:04:33,100 --> 00:04:30,080 month which called man in black just go 71 00:04:36,249 --> 00:04:33,110 men in black personal personal stories 72 00:04:39,430 --> 00:04:36,259 and eerie adventures and of course said 73 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:39,440 nick is a cryptozoologist he is a UFO 74 00:04:45,510 --> 00:04:42,050 researcher and any time you turn on the 75 00:04:48,820 --> 00:04:45,520 TV you're more than likely to see him in 76 00:04:51,189 --> 00:04:48,830 fact a nick and i were at just the week 77 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:51,199 or so ago back-to-back on the travel 78 00:04:56,110 --> 00:04:54,050 channel and he told me was going to be 79 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:56,120 on and i turned it on and i was odd so 80 00:05:01,450 --> 00:04:58,130 that was an episode that was an episode 81 00:05:03,250 --> 00:05:01,460 on joshua tree and you know usually at 82 00:05:05,620 --> 00:05:03,260 Nick I most of these shows they they 83 00:05:07,390 --> 00:05:05,630 throw you a couple of minutes as a you 84 00:05:08,830 --> 00:05:07,400 know you're lucky if you get a couple of 85 00:05:11,020 --> 00:05:08,840 minutes because they got like many many 86 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:11,030 experts on but on this one we were 87 00:05:14,230 --> 00:05:12,289 actually out for quite a bit of time 88 00:05:17,469 --> 00:05:14,240 which is it was pretty good you can 89 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:17,479 never really get out yeah it was of 90 00:05:21,010 --> 00:05:19,130 course it was recorded quite a bit of a 91 00:05:24,100 --> 00:05:21,020 while ago but you know that's that's the 92 00:05:30,580 --> 00:05:24,110 way TV TV is anyway Nick Redford is on 93 00:05:34,810 --> 00:05:30,590 with us and we also have the MIB lady at 94 00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:34,820 Claudia Cunningham who resides up around 95 00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:37,310 Albany in New York and recently a 96 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:39,110 Claudia and I spent the afternoon 97 00:05:48,459 --> 00:05:43,490 together in the cemetery standing at the 98 00:05:49,780 --> 00:05:48,469 foot of Charles forts tombstone in fact 99 00:05:51,460 --> 00:05:49,790 this whole family is bare 100 00:05:55,290 --> 00:05:51,470 right there nine members of the family I 101 00:05:57,870 --> 00:05:55,300 think up if the rural rut rural albany 102 00:06:00,070 --> 00:05:57,880 cemetery just outside for quality and 103 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:00,080 there's an interview that I did the 104 00:06:06,430 --> 00:06:02,690 Claudia a video interview that you could 105 00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:06,440 find on mr. UFO secret files on YouTube 106 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:09,830 now Claudia's had experiences herself 107 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:12,290 with the men in black and she knows the 108 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:13,610 strange events that have been going on 109 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:17,330 in the cemetery and in around Albany as 110 00:06:22,660 --> 00:06:19,730 well so we're looking forward to hearing 111 00:06:26,820 --> 00:06:22,670 from her this evening and then we have a 112 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:26,830 gentleman that I just recently I met on 113 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:30,890 you two up on them on Facebook a steve 114 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:33,650 ward who was involved with the this 115 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:36,890 year's Mothman festival they have an 116 00:06:41,740 --> 00:06:39,170 annual event that steven has been going 117 00:06:44,380 --> 00:06:41,750 on what for about 10 years now I think 118 00:06:47,830 --> 00:06:44,390 2001 I think was the first one my first 119 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:47,840 was 2006 and what we might we'll just 120 00:06:51,550 --> 00:06:49,310 start off with you here while we have 121 00:06:54,210 --> 00:06:51,560 you well you know I forgot Tim Schwartz 122 00:06:58,810 --> 00:06:54,220 Tim are you there oh yes I am always 123 00:07:02,740 --> 00:06:58,820 always here lurkey my my my goodness you 124 00:07:04,870 --> 00:07:02,750 know I'm so anxious to hear the from our 125 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:04,880 guest this evening guy it's not that I 126 00:07:09,180 --> 00:07:06,290 forgot about you because your photos 127 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:09,190 right here in front of me on my desk and 128 00:07:14,710 --> 00:07:11,570 anyway so how's it been going down where 129 00:07:17,020 --> 00:07:14,720 you are in Indiana any any tour net any 130 00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:17,030 tornadoes there in your neighborhood no 131 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:19,790 tornados yet but they're there is the 132 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:22,490 possibility later on tonight the the 133 00:07:28,780 --> 00:07:25,130 weatherman says so I guess that yeah 134 00:07:31,210 --> 00:07:28,790 let's say it's the same system that in 135 00:07:34,630 --> 00:07:31,220 Texas right now it's also all the way 136 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:34,640 north up through a southern Indiana well 137 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:37,130 you know we've got a whirlwind coming 138 00:07:42,990 --> 00:07:39,730 through here for the next two hours on 139 00:07:47,860 --> 00:07:43,000 exploring bizarre and the Casey o our 140 00:07:49,750 --> 00:07:47,870 digital radio network so our discussion 141 00:07:51,820 --> 00:07:49,760 tonight is going to center around the 142 00:07:54,730 --> 00:07:51,830 Mothman and the men in black very 143 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:54,740 related actually because around the time 144 00:08:00,130 --> 00:07:57,770 that the Mothman was being seen in Point 145 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:00,140 Pleasant West Virginia and in the Ohio 146 00:08:04,409 --> 00:08:02,770 area uh there were in 147 00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:04,419 words of encounters people were 148 00:08:08,309 --> 00:08:05,860 reporting encounters with the men in 149 00:08:11,909 --> 00:08:08,319 black and of course John keel went down 150 00:08:16,379 --> 00:08:11,919 to investigate the strange goings-on in 151 00:08:20,610 --> 00:08:16,389 this small of town there and came away 152 00:08:24,059 --> 00:08:20,620 well he met this lady mary hyre mary 153 00:08:26,909 --> 00:08:24,069 hyre was the columnist for the Athens 154 00:08:29,279 --> 00:08:26,919 messenger which is a newspaper i think 155 00:08:32,579 --> 00:08:29,289 it was across well the silver bridge of 156 00:08:35,850 --> 00:08:32,589 course that collapsed the later on spans 157 00:08:38,519 --> 00:08:35,860 Ohio and West Virginia and I think Steve 158 00:08:42,300 --> 00:08:38,529 do you know that Mary was on the Ohio 159 00:08:45,630 --> 00:08:42,310 side I she had an office on the point 160 00:08:49,470 --> 00:08:45,640 pleasant side on sixth Street so 63 mph 161 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:49,480 into the silver bridge uh-huh how why 162 00:08:53,130 --> 00:08:51,250 did you tell us Steve since you're the 163 00:08:55,050 --> 00:08:53,140 one that's mostly connected closely 164 00:08:58,440 --> 00:08:55,060 connected with the the Mothman and the 165 00:09:01,079 --> 00:08:58,450 festival what is the history of Mothman 166 00:09:03,810 --> 00:09:01,089 just briefly and how did you get 167 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:03,820 involved in the festival and and the 168 00:09:08,550 --> 00:09:06,160 activities down there well of course the 169 00:09:11,930 --> 00:09:08,560 the first really classic sighting took 170 00:09:15,210 --> 00:09:11,940 place in November of 1966 that's when 171 00:09:16,740 --> 00:09:15,220 the mallets and the scar berries there 172 00:09:20,130 --> 00:09:16,750 were two couples that were cruising the 173 00:09:22,410 --> 00:09:20,140 infamous TNT area that's the now you 174 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:22,420 were probably down there in the TNT area 175 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:25,770 back in what the 60s well yeah the 176 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:32,170 suburbs collapse what in 1966 77-67 277 177 00:09:37,710 --> 00:09:34,510 yeah I would have been yeah I would have 178 00:09:40,199 --> 00:09:37,720 been down there may be a year later 179 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:40,209 course it's a long long time ago and the 180 00:09:45,449 --> 00:09:42,370 dates kind of fade from my memory after 181 00:09:47,460 --> 00:09:45,459 a while but I went down there with my 182 00:09:50,130 --> 00:09:47,470 associate to Jim Mosley and we met up 183 00:09:52,079 --> 00:09:50,140 with the gray Barker and talked to some 184 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:52,089 of the witnesses that that at that time 185 00:09:56,910 --> 00:09:54,250 but go ahead Steve's it give us a little 186 00:10:00,060 --> 00:09:56,920 detail on what the people saw yeah they 187 00:10:01,860 --> 00:10:00,070 well this was the the TNT area they call 188 00:10:05,069 --> 00:10:01,870 it the TNT area because during World War 189 00:10:07,710 --> 00:10:05,079 two that's where they they made dynamite 190 00:10:09,690 --> 00:10:07,720 munitions for well for the for the war 191 00:10:12,030 --> 00:10:09,700 and they used to store them in these uh 192 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:12,040 they would call on these concrete 193 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:14,290 bunkers and they nicknamed them the 194 00:10:20,670 --> 00:10:15,250 igloos 195 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:20,680 were covered with foliage and so forth 196 00:10:25,130 --> 00:10:23,890 so that if the enemy ever flew over they 197 00:10:29,070 --> 00:10:25,140 wouldn't it would just look like 198 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:29,080 landscape well years later it became 199 00:10:34,530 --> 00:10:31,690 abandoned and it became quite a lover's 200 00:10:36,180 --> 00:10:34,540 lane and he's two married couples they 201 00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:36,190 would go through and do what they called 202 00:10:41,550 --> 00:10:38,560 chasing Parker's where they would sneak 203 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:41,560 up on lover is unaware and then shiner 204 00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:43,450 their headlights into the car and so 205 00:10:47,310 --> 00:10:45,310 forth so they're just having a good time 206 00:10:51,510 --> 00:10:47,320 on a Saturday night or whatever night it 207 00:10:58,440 --> 00:10:51,520 was and that much I do in point pleasant 208 00:11:03,240 --> 00:10:58,450 than I yes I they went by the old North 209 00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:03,250 power plant now that's a you know this 210 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:05,040 whole area became abandoned for years 211 00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:09,130 anyway they saw some kind of a a man 212 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:11,440 like creature with wings red glowing 213 00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:17,410 eyes and I guess it had one of its wings 214 00:11:20,420 --> 00:11:18,910 didn't seem to be caught in the fence I 215 00:11:22,890 --> 00:11:20,430 was able to talk to Linda Scarberry 216 00:11:26,130 --> 00:11:22,900 one-on-one several times before she 217 00:11:27,690 --> 00:11:26,140 passed and so they saw this thing and 218 00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:27,700 they had just really freaked them out 219 00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:29,680 and they took off and apparently it 220 00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:31,750 chased him into town down route 62 and 221 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:34,270 supposedly they were reaching speeds of 222 00:11:38,670 --> 00:11:36,730 about a hundred miles per hour that was 223 00:11:41,490 --> 00:11:38,680 the first big citing it chased them all 224 00:11:43,430 --> 00:11:41,500 the way into town and then later on 225 00:11:48,750 --> 00:11:43,440 there were other real classic sightings 226 00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:48,760 by some other people try to remember the 227 00:11:53,370 --> 00:11:50,320 lady that there was the lady that was 228 00:11:54,570 --> 00:11:53,380 holding her baby our infant child she 229 00:11:56,220 --> 00:11:54,580 was they were visiting some friends that 230 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:56,230 lived in the TNT area there were 231 00:12:02,160 --> 00:11:57,730 actually houses out there at the time 232 00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:02,170 and her brother they had seen some kind 233 00:12:08,220 --> 00:12:06,670 of a strange light in the sky and all of 234 00:12:10,950 --> 00:12:08,230 a sudden this thing rose up out of the 235 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:10,960 ground and stood up and she actually 236 00:12:18,390 --> 00:12:13,930 collapsed and dropped her baby the baby 237 00:12:21,090 --> 00:12:18,400 was okay but I've seen I didn't never 238 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:21,100 was able to talk to her one on one but I 239 00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:23,290 saw some long form interviews done with 240 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:25,360 some of these people and I've spoken to 241 00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:27,010 about six and the original witnesses all 242 00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:29,230 together so I very convinced that they 243 00:12:36,270 --> 00:12:32,560 saw something really bizarre but you 244 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:36,280 know once this hit it was see I first 245 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:38,170 heard about it I lived up in Michigan 246 00:12:44,850 --> 00:12:42,010 and that November 66 this came over the 247 00:12:46,410 --> 00:12:44,860 wires and it was fascinating to me I 248 00:12:49,980 --> 00:12:46,420 mean I had already been interested in 249 00:12:52,970 --> 00:12:49,990 UFOs because the previous March is where 250 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:52,980 we had the famous swamp gas sightings 251 00:13:00,480 --> 00:12:56,730 right my backyard ann arbor Hillsdale 252 00:13:03,060 --> 00:13:00,490 dexter all these UFOs were being cited 253 00:13:07,140 --> 00:13:03,070 so that your kind of culminated with the 254 00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:07,150 this incredible report of this man bird 255 00:13:14,210 --> 00:13:10,950 chasing these two couples down route 62 256 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:14,220 now what wasn't there also an incident 257 00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:16,750 you know we started out with this cousin 258 00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:19,360 little skit there about the the fellow 259 00:13:24,540 --> 00:13:22,510 having his dog snatched up by oh yeah 260 00:13:25,970 --> 00:13:24,550 the boss man wasn't there an actual 261 00:13:28,860 --> 00:13:25,980 incident like that with somebody 262 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:28,870 supposedly or is that or is that just a 263 00:13:34,590 --> 00:13:31,530 legend no that was the Merle partridge 264 00:13:37,260 --> 00:13:34,600 he there was something out in his yard 265 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:37,270 and it was a little bit confusing I 266 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:40,810 think there were some editorial things 267 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:43,090 done in the mothman prophecies like John 268 00:13:47,220 --> 00:13:45,130 keel told my good friends jhonatan 269 00:13:50,190 --> 00:13:47,230 frequence John keel by the way was at 270 00:13:51,810 --> 00:13:50,200 the 2003 Mothman festival and that's 271 00:13:53,820 --> 00:13:51,820 where they unveiled this incredible 272 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:53,830 Mothman statue that sits in the center 273 00:13:58,770 --> 00:13:56,290 of town but he told my friends that they 274 00:14:01,560 --> 00:13:58,780 had done you know actually half the 275 00:14:03,090 --> 00:14:01,570 mothman prophecies was cut out he was 276 00:14:04,890 --> 00:14:03,100 able to salvage later into another 277 00:14:08,010 --> 00:14:04,900 that's right i think that became the 278 00:14:11,250 --> 00:14:08,020 eighth tower exactly correctly well you 279 00:14:13,710 --> 00:14:11,260 know we had John and I sit here a couple 280 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:13,720 of days and we took a lot of his old 281 00:14:20,010 --> 00:14:15,970 articles and some of his paperback books 282 00:14:22,820 --> 00:14:20,020 and we pasted him up in an 82 hefei 11 283 00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:22,830 tome which we called strange mutants 284 00:14:28,260 --> 00:14:26,260 which was I had a lot of the material 285 00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:28,270 from the Mothman you know I knew John 286 00:14:33,690 --> 00:14:30,550 fairly well he he lived only a couple of 287 00:14:37,290 --> 00:14:33,700 blocks from me and in fact he did 288 00:14:40,410 --> 00:14:37,300 introduce me to marry a higher and we 289 00:14:42,690 --> 00:14:40,420 had a discussion about some of her men 290 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:42,700 and black you know 291 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:44,770 counters which we'll get into and in 292 00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:48,610 just a little while but uh okay how did 293 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:50,560 you get involved in this I mean what is 294 00:14:57,510 --> 00:14:54,910 your actual involvement in the in the 295 00:14:59,460 --> 00:14:57,520 festival itself I just want to let you 296 00:15:03,000 --> 00:14:59,470 know amaral partridge I did actually see 297 00:15:04,860 --> 00:15:03,010 him he spoke at the festival in 2006 and 298 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:04,870 he recounted the deal where but the dog 299 00:15:08,490 --> 00:15:06,490 had disappeared I mean he saw some 300 00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:08,500 strange lights out in the fields and 301 00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:10,510 then bandit was gone never saw the dog 302 00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:12,220 again he and his daughter where they 303 00:15:17,190 --> 00:15:13,710 were speaking and they even saw some 304 00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:17,200 giant UFOs cross over their property but 305 00:15:23,220 --> 00:15:20,110 I am red keels book now I had followed 306 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:23,230 keel his writings for for quite a while 307 00:15:29,580 --> 00:15:26,770 and and then when i read the mothman 308 00:15:31,410 --> 00:15:29,590 prophecies i I thought I have to go see 309 00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:31,420 this what point pleasant looks like so I 310 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:32,920 took a trip my first trip to Point 311 00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:36,370 Pleasant was in actually 1977 and I came 312 00:15:39,660 --> 00:15:37,780 down that's when the old North power 313 00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:39,670 plant was still standing and you could 314 00:15:44,130 --> 00:15:41,470 actually drive through the TNT area you 315 00:15:47,190 --> 00:15:44,140 can't do that now you can you can go in 316 00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:47,200 and walk in certain areas but then one 317 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:49,390 fateful day i was looking at reading 318 00:15:53,820 --> 00:15:51,250 fate magazine a faint magazine was good 319 00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:53,830 for telling you what kind of a kind of 320 00:15:59,370 --> 00:15:56,110 upcoming events we're going to uh it'll 321 00:16:01,920 --> 00:15:59,380 happen various paranormal conventions 322 00:16:04,260 --> 00:16:01,930 and so forth and I saw you know the 323 00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:04,270 Mothman festival i thought well we've 324 00:16:11,190 --> 00:16:07,510 got to go see that so 2006 my wife and i 325 00:16:13,650 --> 00:16:11,200 came down and just you know fell in love 326 00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:13,660 with the town and it's it's the festival 327 00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:17,260 is so much fun you have it's free you 328 00:16:21,750 --> 00:16:19,120 have speakers that go on all day and of 329 00:16:24,930 --> 00:16:21,760 course people have their tables set up 330 00:16:27,390 --> 00:16:24,940 to sell their wares and so forth there 331 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:27,400 are a lot of a lift speakers there like 332 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:30,910 Nick Redfern was there a year ago rose 333 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:33,730 mary ellen guiley is there every year 334 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:36,250 yeah we just said we just had her on the 335 00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:38,890 on the program I think two weeks ago now 336 00:16:43,410 --> 00:16:40,720 they're talking about the gym I imagine 337 00:16:46,110 --> 00:16:43,420 the chin yes yes and not that not the 338 00:16:49,050 --> 00:16:46,120 type not the not the type you drink okay 339 00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:49,060 that's that's true but and they also 340 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:52,440 have a you know more regional local yes 341 00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:55,330 they've done a really good job Jeff 342 00:16:57,530 --> 00:16:56,160 Wamsley 343 00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:57,540 and Carolyn Harris are the co-founders 344 00:17:02,449 --> 00:17:00,720 of the festival and Jeff wansley runs 345 00:17:04,699 --> 00:17:02,459 the Mothman museum they've done a 346 00:17:06,980 --> 00:17:04,709 phenomenal job it's just professionally 347 00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:06,990 done and they've done a great even if 348 00:17:11,659 --> 00:17:08,880 you don't believe anything about the 349 00:17:14,270 --> 00:17:11,669 mosque man it's certainly no John keel 350 00:17:16,819 --> 00:17:14,280 said that this is this is folklore in 351 00:17:19,730 --> 00:17:16,829 the making and you know certainly within 352 00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:19,740 the last few decades the folklore of the 353 00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:22,110 Mothman is going to outlast all of us 354 00:17:26,299 --> 00:17:24,480 and it's really they've done a great job 355 00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:26,309 of documenting all this stuff in the 356 00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:28,710 museum well you know I remember I 357 00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:31,740 remember when John came came back from 358 00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:33,840 point pleasant I think he had gone down 359 00:17:40,539 --> 00:17:36,510 to West Virginia he was doing a column a 360 00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:43,570 syndicate that was a night in a 30 or 40 361 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:46,080 his column was in like 30 or 40 paper 362 00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:48,450 papers around the country and he had 363 00:17:53,870 --> 00:17:51,929 gone down to investigate the story of I 364 00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:53,880 believe it was a cat with wings or 365 00:17:58,700 --> 00:17:56,400 something like yes you know I'm he's 366 00:18:04,539 --> 00:17:58,710 yeah yeahs ripley's believe it or not 367 00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:04,549 the type of you know animal there and 368 00:18:10,340 --> 00:18:07,289 anyway he came back and he he told us 369 00:18:12,529 --> 00:18:10,350 about how he had said on the top of a 370 00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:12,539 you know not a mountain but a hill and 371 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:14,640 had watched these objects for several 372 00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:18,090 nights in a row you know come in fairly 373 00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:20,220 close to where he was seated and and 374 00:18:23,210 --> 00:18:22,020 there was all this activity about the 375 00:18:25,460 --> 00:18:23,220 Mothman and all of course it wasn't 376 00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:25,470 getting any press at that time 377 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:27,750 especially up where we were so you know 378 00:18:32,149 --> 00:18:30,090 we were kind of hesitant akhil had some 379 00:18:35,630 --> 00:18:32,159 pretty wild stories to tell you know 380 00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:35,640 this was back in this in the 60s when 381 00:18:43,610 --> 00:18:39,419 nuts and bolts were you know it's still 382 00:18:46,490 --> 00:18:43,620 the the main focus as far as UFOs went 383 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:46,500 and keel was telling us some very very 384 00:18:54,020 --> 00:18:50,970 strange you know tales of the bizarre in 385 00:18:56,510 --> 00:18:54,030 fact we used to go together every other 386 00:18:59,630 --> 00:18:56,520 friday night i think it was to a gym 387 00:19:01,549 --> 00:18:59,640 mosley saucer news meetings along Times 388 00:19:04,669 --> 00:19:01,559 Square he would rent in those days you 389 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:04,679 can rent a little hotel you know like 390 00:19:09,289 --> 00:19:06,690 banquet room that held maybe 200 people 391 00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:09,299 for about twenty-five dollars a night or 392 00:19:11,570 --> 00:19:10,260 maybe 35 393 00:19:13,370 --> 00:19:11,580 I've does can you imagine that today 394 00:19:15,380 --> 00:19:13,380 yeah you could you couldn't have a 395 00:19:17,870 --> 00:19:15,390 meeting if you wanted today what 2,000 396 00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:17,880 the house for the saber rumor or some 397 00:19:21,410 --> 00:19:19,830 nonsense you know like that so we would 398 00:19:24,590 --> 00:19:21,420 all get we would all get together and go 399 00:19:28,220 --> 00:19:24,600 out to the bill I think it was the 400 00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:28,230 Biltmore cafeteria and you know we'd 401 00:19:31,910 --> 00:19:30,480 stay out too like midnight or one 402 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:31,920 o'clock in the morning because we didn't 403 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:34,290 have the Internet in those days and and 404 00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:37,410 so forth and just you know Thresh this 405 00:19:43,010 --> 00:19:40,110 stuff back and forth and John had these 406 00:19:46,340 --> 00:19:43,020 quite amazing stories and I remember 407 00:19:50,420 --> 00:19:46,350 being up at his apartment many many 408 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:50,430 times till about oh five or six o'clock 409 00:19:56,330 --> 00:19:53,490 in the in the morning listening to him 410 00:19:58,850 --> 00:19:56,340 tell these these weird did you know a 411 00:20:00,770 --> 00:19:58,860 tales of the Mothman and the telephone 412 00:20:04,220 --> 00:20:00,780 calls that would come into his hotel 413 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:04,230 room and you know it was all it was all 414 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:07,170 just unusual and I was kind of skeptical 415 00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:08,850 and Jim Mosley of course was always 416 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:10,230 skeptical about everything pretty much 417 00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:13,050 haha but but you know the more that I 418 00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:14,760 listen to John and the more that I got 419 00:20:19,330 --> 00:20:16,860 out and started investigating this on my 420 00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:19,340 own I realized that there was a whole 421 00:20:25,340 --> 00:20:22,860 different world of UFOs out there than 422 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:25,350 we had been led to believe and that we 423 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:29,210 were dealing with something a bit 424 00:20:34,820 --> 00:20:32,250 stranger than just the you know aircraft 425 00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:34,830 from some other planet I mean it just 426 00:20:43,730 --> 00:20:39,720 didn't seem to to fit the the mold now 427 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:43,740 you know yet is a his book UFOs 428 00:20:47,630 --> 00:20:46,170 operation Trojan horse that's the one 429 00:20:49,490 --> 00:20:47,640 that really kind of turned the corner 430 00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,500 for me it was before the mothman 431 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:51,360 prophecies and that's where he he tied 432 00:20:55,910 --> 00:20:53,730 and all this phenomena that seemed to be 433 00:20:59,390 --> 00:20:55,920 different it seemed you tie it together 434 00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:59,400 and seem to have links well you know we 435 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:01,440 had our I was on the board of director 436 00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:04,410 of John's 40 in New York 14 society and 437 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:07,740 we had our meetings actually right next 438 00:21:12,290 --> 00:21:10,410 door from where I am a seated at the 439 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:12,300 moment but the building was torn down 440 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:15,210 and it's now a vacant lot and will 441 00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,450 probably be a bank very soon because 442 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:20,400 that's all we have in new york city at 443 00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:22,770 the moment or nail powers and banks and 444 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:24,510 and so the 445 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:26,730 I'm looking forward to the drilling and 446 00:21:32,540 --> 00:21:29,010 the hammering which will no go no doubt 447 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:32,550 go on for for 22 years but what well 448 00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:34,650 what can you do I guess I guess they 449 00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:37,320 call it progress considering the age of 450 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:40,080 your building all of that jackhammering 451 00:21:44,060 --> 00:21:41,970 & building next door is guaranteed to 452 00:21:46,370 --> 00:21:44,070 bring it down I think well you know 453 00:21:48,610 --> 00:21:46,380 actually uh when they did bring the 454 00:21:51,050 --> 00:21:48,620 building down which is a vacant lot now 455 00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,060 they actually stopped the elevator for 456 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:53,280 about 22 weeks because they considered 457 00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:55,650 it you know it could be a dangerous that 458 00:22:00,170 --> 00:21:58,080 somebody might be in there but somebody 459 00:22:02,350 --> 00:22:00,180 did come in a couple of days ago or a 460 00:22:04,490 --> 00:22:02,360 week ago and took photographs of 461 00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:04,500 everything in the apartment case there's 462 00:22:07,820 --> 00:22:06,990 any kind of structural you know damage 463 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:07,830 and of course there's a lot of 464 00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:10,110 structural damage in this old apartment 465 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:11,460 but not in the rest of the building but 466 00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,170 that's another story I guess I guess now 467 00:22:20,750 --> 00:22:18,720 we're going to be coming up on a 468 00:22:22,910 --> 00:22:20,760 commercial break in just a minute and 469 00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:22,920 then we're going to bring in our other I 470 00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:25,200 guess we've got a lot to to really 471 00:22:32,510 --> 00:22:28,860 discuss here this evening you know the 472 00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:32,520 men and black is always fascinated me in 473 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:35,760 fact you've probably seen me on the 474 00:22:42,050 --> 00:22:38,970 History Channel I'm probably the only 475 00:22:44,660 --> 00:22:42,060 person who's ever really ever actually 476 00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:44,670 photographed what is believed to be an 477 00:22:52,580 --> 00:22:49,910 authentic men and men in black amid and 478 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:52,590 so I you know I've kind of had a close 479 00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:54,930 dealing with the the subject and I'm 480 00:23:00,500 --> 00:22:56,520 probably one of the few people who ever 481 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:00,510 met Albert k a bender of course it was 482 00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:02,610 Albert Kate bender who first reported 483 00:23:10,010 --> 00:23:06,720 the men in black and there in the 484 00:23:13,580 --> 00:23:10,020 various deeds and so when we come back 485 00:23:17,650 --> 00:23:13,590 we're going to be discussing the men in 486 00:23:20,810 --> 00:23:17,660 black and the Mothman and we've got 487 00:23:24,110 --> 00:23:20,820 another 90 minutes of fascinating 488 00:23:26,330 --> 00:23:24,120 discussion with three of the best guess 489 00:23:29,930 --> 00:23:26,340 you could possibly have and this is 490 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:29,940 exploring the bizarre 491 00:23:36,660 --> 00:23:34,090 now back to exploring the bazaar with 492 00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:36,670 two of the most electrifying researchers 493 00:23:45,870 --> 00:23:40,000 in the paranoid your hosts Timothy Becca 494 00:23:48,990 --> 00:23:45,880 Lee and tings watts and I do encourage 495 00:23:50,850 --> 00:23:49,000 your listeners to give us a call textus 496 00:23:53,550 --> 00:23:50,860 however you want to communicate with 497 00:23:56,610 --> 00:23:53,560 your questions we love hearing from you 498 00:24:01,920 --> 00:23:56,620 we love getting your questions too and I 499 00:24:03,690 --> 00:24:01,930 mean it's it keeps the program alive and 500 00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:03,700 fresh i think that's that's a good way 501 00:24:11,730 --> 00:24:07,710 to put it dead to get your input but 502 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:11,740 tonight we're talking about Mothman and 503 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:14,170 the men in black and and one of the 504 00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:16,330 things that i think is really 505 00:24:23,330 --> 00:24:19,600 interesting especially with the the 506 00:24:25,650 --> 00:24:23,340 whole Mothman situations especially in 507 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:25,660 1967 is that people in Point Pleasant 508 00:24:32,430 --> 00:24:27,930 and the surrounding areas we're also 509 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:32,440 seeing strange people running around I 510 00:24:37,860 --> 00:24:35,890 mean you know you'd call him in and 511 00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:37,870 black but I mean they kind of came in 512 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:40,750 all different shapes and sizes now these 513 00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:43,510 were people that I mean they had no idea 514 00:24:54,210 --> 00:24:47,980 of the whole men in black mythos but at 515 00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:54,220 the same time at the same time in New 516 00:25:01,530 --> 00:24:58,000 York Long Island around mount misery 517 00:25:04,460 --> 00:25:01,540 there is also a lot of mid and black 518 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:04,470 activities going on and so Nick I'll add 519 00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:07,090 I'll said this question your direction 520 00:25:12,930 --> 00:25:10,390 now you're the your third book on the 521 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:12,940 mid and black has just come out and what 522 00:25:19,230 --> 00:25:17,650 got you what got you going what got you 523 00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:19,240 involved in the whole minute black thing 524 00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:22,260 to begin with well when I was sort of 525 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:24,880 probably like a lot of us you know we 526 00:25:29,130 --> 00:25:26,650 get into these subjects when we were 527 00:25:32,850 --> 00:25:29,140 young and for me I was about 11 or 12 528 00:25:36,180 --> 00:25:32,860 and I think the first few books i read 529 00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:36,190 were like for example the mothman 530 00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:38,710 prophecies and i think is one of brad's 531 00:25:41,789 --> 00:25:41,140 Tigers early books mysteries of time and 532 00:25:43,889 --> 00:25:41,799 space 533 00:25:47,129 --> 00:25:43,899 and couple by charles berlitz things 534 00:25:49,289 --> 00:25:47,139 like that and I remember reading the 535 00:25:51,869 --> 00:25:49,299 mothman prophecies you know and it's 536 00:25:54,479 --> 00:25:51,879 sort of opened my eyes to wealth amassed 537 00:25:57,180 --> 00:25:54,489 manner and like you said the surrounding 538 00:25:59,460 --> 00:25:57,190 weird stuff then actually the next book 539 00:26:01,379 --> 00:25:59,470 that I read when I was I forget what I 540 00:26:03,899 --> 00:26:01,389 was probably 14 or 15 I red gray 541 00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:03,909 Barker's menu too much about flying 542 00:26:10,499 --> 00:26:07,600 saucers which told the the story album 543 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:10,509 end or at least Barker's version of 544 00:26:15,649 --> 00:26:13,330 events in terms of what bender claims of 545 00:26:18,899 --> 00:26:15,659 experience then of course later on I 546 00:26:21,060 --> 00:26:18,909 read benders old book flying saucers and 547 00:26:23,159 --> 00:26:21,070 the three men so in other words my 548 00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:23,169 exposure pretty much was was through the 549 00:26:29,789 --> 00:26:26,609 books but I was fascinated by it because 550 00:26:32,279 --> 00:26:29,799 the the men in black was clearly tied to 551 00:26:34,169 --> 00:26:32,289 the UFO phenomenon but if you read the 552 00:26:36,509 --> 00:26:34,179 original reports you know there were 553 00:26:38,820 --> 00:26:36,519 nothing like Will Smith and Tommy Lee 554 00:26:42,029 --> 00:26:38,830 Jones you know like in the noise they 555 00:26:44,580 --> 00:26:42,039 had these clear and deep paranormal 556 00:26:47,099 --> 00:26:44,590 overtones to them as well where you know 557 00:26:49,529 --> 00:26:47,109 they were just so very unsettling and 558 00:26:52,169 --> 00:26:49,539 sinister almost you know you could or 559 00:26:53,970 --> 00:26:52,179 you could say they were a cult based in 560 00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:53,980 many respects and so it sort of 561 00:26:59,519 --> 00:26:56,320 fascinated me and you know anything you 562 00:27:01,619 --> 00:26:59,529 come out read about it and started doing 563 00:27:04,259 --> 00:27:01,629 a few articles back in the 90s some 564 00:27:06,299 --> 00:27:04,269 English magazines and people contacted 565 00:27:08,970 --> 00:27:06,309 with their stories I kind of built up 566 00:27:11,549 --> 00:27:08,980 from there really and I mean it's one of 567 00:27:13,169 --> 00:27:11,559 these subjects where I guess like you 568 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:13,179 write about any subject somebody writes 569 00:27:18,659 --> 00:27:16,330 about ghosts gets a lot of feedback from 570 00:27:20,070 --> 00:27:18,669 readers on the subject of ghosts you 571 00:27:22,590 --> 00:27:20,080 know I've written three books on the man 572 00:27:24,779 --> 00:27:22,600 in black so I get a lot of inputs and 573 00:27:26,669 --> 00:27:24,789 stories from people who've seen the man 574 00:27:28,979 --> 00:27:26,679 in black and to be honest because it's 575 00:27:30,479 --> 00:27:28,989 one of my favorite subjects i mean i 576 00:27:33,090 --> 00:27:30,489 think i'll be happy to sort of do a man 577 00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:33,100 in black book every 18 months or so you 578 00:27:37,340 --> 00:27:35,049 know to update people so they could feel 579 00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:37,350 the new data because there's so many 580 00:27:43,529 --> 00:27:40,480 strands and angles and theories as to 581 00:27:45,810 --> 00:27:43,539 who the men in black are that it makes 582 00:27:47,639 --> 00:27:45,820 for a fascinating story it's not sort of 583 00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:47,649 to nobody tenant it's not black and 584 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:50,710 white you know it's it goes in a lot of 585 00:27:54,180 --> 00:27:52,210 different directions and that's what I 586 00:27:55,090 --> 00:27:54,190 find fascinating fascinating about it 587 00:27:57,630 --> 00:27:55,100 all 588 00:28:00,400 --> 00:27:57,640 well now you mentioned Albert bender and 589 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:00,410 what a lot of people don't realize is 590 00:28:08,289 --> 00:28:04,850 that bender besides being interested in 591 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:08,299 UFOs he was also very much into the 592 00:28:16,270 --> 00:28:12,770 occult and and paranormal and I think I 593 00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:16,280 mean you know you're a lot of people 594 00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:18,140 including yourself has made the 595 00:28:23,380 --> 00:28:20,990 observation that there could be some 596 00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:23,390 kind of a cult connection with the whole 597 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:26,720 min and black thing well yeah I mean I 598 00:28:32,169 --> 00:28:29,210 mean bender was heavily into some really 599 00:28:34,930 --> 00:28:32,179 deep and dark occult stuff you know he 600 00:28:37,779 --> 00:28:34,940 lived in the Attic of his old house in 601 00:28:40,180 --> 00:28:37,789 Bridgeport Connecticut and actually 602 00:28:42,399 --> 00:28:40,190 created what he called his he's like his 603 00:28:44,529 --> 00:28:42,409 supernatural altar in the attic room 604 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:44,539 that he lived in and he wasn't just a 605 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:46,330 dabbler you know he was heavily 606 00:28:52,029 --> 00:28:49,370 conversing with a cult rites and rituals 607 00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:52,039 and that kind of thing and you know I 608 00:28:56,590 --> 00:28:53,600 mean I've investigated enough things to 609 00:28:58,720 --> 00:28:56,600 make me believe as a genuine paranormal 610 00:29:02,289 --> 00:28:58,730 world and it's not once a sort of mess 611 00:29:04,570 --> 00:29:02,299 with you know in haphazard fashion or 612 00:29:06,940 --> 00:29:04,580 likely even you know if there's such 613 00:29:08,409 --> 00:29:06,950 things like psychic backlash and you 614 00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:08,419 open a door either know what you know 615 00:29:14,409 --> 00:29:10,159 that through and there's a lot of 616 00:29:16,510 --> 00:29:14,419 evidence from vendors stories but you 617 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:16,520 know he essentially opened the doors or 618 00:29:21,159 --> 00:29:18,530 something but manifested in the form of 619 00:29:23,860 --> 00:29:21,169 these shadowy figures that became known 620 00:29:26,020 --> 00:29:23,870 as the man in black and you can tell 621 00:29:28,990 --> 00:29:26,030 from his story but I mean how it plagued 622 00:29:32,970 --> 00:29:29,000 his life and affected he's both his 623 00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:32,980 mental health and physical health and 624 00:29:37,570 --> 00:29:35,809 some of the stories for example how he 625 00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:37,580 would feel dizzy and lightheaded in his 626 00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:39,679 bedroom and suddenly boo boo these 627 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:42,080 overwhelming smell of like brimstone you 628 00:29:47,620 --> 00:29:43,970 know which is like a classic paranormal 629 00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:47,630 aspect and you know the there are so 630 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:50,870 many parallels wake you read benders 631 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:53,090 book yeah I mean it comes across far 632 00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:55,850 less Mulder and Scully and far more like 633 00:30:02,620 --> 00:29:59,840 HP Lovecraft mismo Mulder and Scully you 634 00:30:04,570 --> 00:30:02,630 know is very very weird story you find 635 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:04,580 that in a lot of the many black story so 636 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:07,010 that they have countless sort of 637 00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:08,690 supernatural aspects to them 638 00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:12,110 well I'm Nick yeah go ahead I'm so yeah 639 00:30:18,790 --> 00:30:15,710 Nick now I met Albert k bender actually 640 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:18,800 a1c he wrote a book called flying 641 00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:21,290 saucers in the three men which is more 642 00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:22,940 like a science fiction book than their I 643 00:30:29,530 --> 00:30:24,710 mean he claimed it was real but it was 644 00:30:31,210 --> 00:30:29,540 just total but it'll a fantasy as far as 645 00:30:33,010 --> 00:30:31,220 I'm concerned I guess he claims that he 646 00:30:35,140 --> 00:30:33,020 was taken to the north of the South Pole 647 00:30:36,820 --> 00:30:35,150 and met some people from some other 648 00:30:39,570 --> 00:30:36,830 plight I didn't remember the details of 649 00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:39,580 it and the book was pretty much ignored 650 00:30:44,860 --> 00:30:42,710 by everyone in the in the field but 651 00:30:49,570 --> 00:30:44,870 certainly Albert Kate bender was not the 652 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:49,580 first individual to the men in black I 653 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:51,410 think even in the maury island the 654 00:30:56,740 --> 00:30:53,930 incident to where there was a bib that 655 00:30:59,770 --> 00:30:56,750 was encountered but what have you found 656 00:31:01,990 --> 00:30:59,780 out historically about them well yeah 657 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:02,000 that's interesting because there are a 658 00:31:07,380 --> 00:31:05,210 number of cases that go the Prix de you 659 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:07,390 know the UFO phenomenon beginning in 660 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:10,490 1947 friend of mine in England Nigel 661 00:31:16,450 --> 00:31:13,250 Wright was a well-known research in the 662 00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:16,460 UK Nigel spent some time going through 663 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:20,240 old newspaper reports in search of when 664 00:31:25,450 --> 00:31:23,690 there was a wave of sort of phantom 665 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:25,460 airships as they became known over here 666 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:26,650 there was a similar phenomenon 667 00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:30,850 roundabout 1908 1909 1910 in the UK 668 00:31:39,070 --> 00:31:35,360 Nigel found a story where three guys 669 00:31:42,610 --> 00:31:39,080 three ship workers were taking a break 670 00:31:45,130 --> 00:31:42,620 the lunch break new one particular port 671 00:31:48,130 --> 00:31:45,140 area in the north of England and an 672 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:48,140 early car turned of black car and three 673 00:31:53,740 --> 00:31:51,650 guys got out of the car and came over to 674 00:31:56,350 --> 00:31:53,750 these workmen and said have you seen any 675 00:31:58,420 --> 00:31:56,360 strange craft in the sky any strange 676 00:32:00,400 --> 00:31:58,430 balloons in the sky and they you know 677 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:00,410 these guys were just sort of staring and 678 00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:02,810 all dressed alike and they said no we 679 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:04,310 haven't seen anything they just turned 680 00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,050 around and got back in this black car 681 00:32:10,540 --> 00:32:08,240 and drove off you know that sounds like 682 00:32:14,110 --> 00:32:10,550 the typical weird activity of the men in 683 00:32:16,990 --> 00:32:14,120 black today that was like 19 10 I found 684 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:17,000 other stories we're going back hundreds 685 00:32:21,310 --> 00:32:19,010 of years where people who were 686 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:21,320 researching and investigating the field 687 00:32:24,790 --> 00:32:22,370 of alchemy you know 688 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:24,800 alchemist turning base metals into 689 00:32:29,980 --> 00:32:27,410 precious metals a number of alchemists 690 00:32:31,690 --> 00:32:29,990 who'd been visited by sort of black 691 00:32:34,420 --> 00:32:31,700 cloak figures in the night in middle of 692 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:34,430 the night sometimes warning them to keep 693 00:32:39,580 --> 00:32:36,770 away from alchemy other time sort of 694 00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:39,590 imparting the secrets of alchemy but 695 00:32:44,490 --> 00:32:42,350 they sound like the man in black and 696 00:32:47,530 --> 00:32:44,500 another book I'm working on right now on 697 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:47,540 women in black cases which are very kind 698 00:32:51,910 --> 00:32:49,610 of similar but less well-known I've got 699 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:51,920 stories of women in black typed 700 00:32:56,230 --> 00:32:54,170 characters threatening people in 701 00:32:59,320 --> 00:32:56,240 relation to UFOs and paranormal activity 702 00:33:01,960 --> 00:32:59,330 going back hundreds of years so I think 703 00:33:04,180 --> 00:33:01,970 it's an old phenomenon that has very 704 00:33:06,549 --> 00:33:04,190 much being overlooked people haven't 705 00:33:09,130 --> 00:33:06,559 necessarily tied these ancient stories 706 00:33:10,590 --> 00:33:09,140 or centuries-old stories with today's 707 00:33:12,970 --> 00:33:10,600 men in blood but there are clear 708 00:33:16,150 --> 00:33:12,980 parallels and comparisons when you look 709 00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:16,160 into it well now we actually have 710 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:19,360 somebody on our panel tonight who has 711 00:33:26,020 --> 00:33:22,970 had their own actual men and black 712 00:33:27,730 --> 00:33:26,030 experience and so Claudia we're glad to 713 00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:27,740 have you with us tonight why don't you 714 00:33:32,380 --> 00:33:29,809 tell why don't you tell us you know 715 00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:32,390 about your experience oh well you know 716 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:34,880 I've been interested in this crazy stuff 717 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:38,690 since I was about five I remember and I 718 00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:40,850 was laying in bed and my mother had a 719 00:33:46,299 --> 00:33:44,000 curtain over my closet and of course I 720 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:46,309 always imagined that some monster was 721 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:48,410 you know going to come out and grab me I 722 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:51,170 always loved to be afraid I don't know 723 00:33:55,860 --> 00:33:53,090 it's probably something wrong with me 724 00:33:58,750 --> 00:33:55,870 but it kind of led me into a life of 725 00:34:01,120 --> 00:33:58,760 investigating different weird phenomena 726 00:34:03,490 --> 00:34:01,130 and the more I I spoke to friends the 727 00:34:06,700 --> 00:34:03,500 more stories I kind of accumulated 728 00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:06,710 through the years but the big thing with 729 00:34:13,090 --> 00:34:10,190 the men in black I have to set the stage 730 00:34:14,889 --> 00:34:13,100 for you because it's you have to you 731 00:34:17,409 --> 00:34:14,899 have to in your mind picture this 732 00:34:19,930 --> 00:34:17,419 cemetery which is probably about three 733 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:19,940 miles outside of the city of Albany New 734 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:23,690 York which is about 148 miles north of 735 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:27,290 New York City it's the capital of New 736 00:34:31,540 --> 00:34:30,050 York and mostly a government town what 737 00:34:33,909 --> 00:34:31,550 most the people that live here work for 738 00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:33,919 the government and compared to New York 739 00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:36,320 it's an extremely dull place for 740 00:34:41,890 --> 00:34:39,520 but it's very pretty and outside of 741 00:34:45,330 --> 00:34:41,900 paranormal goings-on there's not much 742 00:34:49,780 --> 00:34:45,340 going on here but anyway the in nineteen 743 00:34:53,950 --> 00:34:49,790 was it 19 want to say 1999 but i think 744 00:34:56,730 --> 00:34:53,960 it was 2010 that i got a phone call from 745 00:35:00,190 --> 00:34:56,740 a very good friend of mine where this 746 00:35:03,100 --> 00:35:00,200 thing happened now the albany rural 747 00:35:06,130 --> 00:35:03,110 cemetery is where this disappearing 748 00:35:08,620 --> 00:35:06,140 black car happened to a friend of mine 749 00:35:12,250 --> 00:35:08,630 and like I said it's about four miles 750 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:12,260 outside of the capital area and it's you 751 00:35:19,870 --> 00:35:15,050 know it's in a very imposing cemetery 752 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:19,880 it's located on a very long hill and to 753 00:35:28,510 --> 00:35:23,410 give you a little background it was in 754 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:28,520 1844 it was opened as a result of where 755 00:35:32,830 --> 00:35:30,530 the people used to be buried in the city 756 00:35:35,470 --> 00:35:32,840 of Albany in what is now washington park 757 00:35:37,690 --> 00:35:35,480 and there were heavy rains one year and 758 00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:37,700 some of the caskets actually came to the 759 00:35:42,070 --> 00:35:40,220 surface so it was pretty appalling so 760 00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:42,080 they decided to bury the bodies outside 761 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:47,270 of the albany proper and lay them to 762 00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:50,690 rest on this hill and the cemetery 763 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:54,320 itself is very beautiful actually 764 00:35:59,080 --> 00:35:57,050 because there are certain parts of it 765 00:36:01,810 --> 00:35:59,090 where there's a very beautiful pond 766 00:36:04,990 --> 00:36:01,820 there are people jogging you see people 767 00:36:08,380 --> 00:36:05,000 having picnics or walking your dogs but 768 00:36:10,510 --> 00:36:08,390 there's also several parts of that place 769 00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:10,520 that look like something out of a horror 770 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:13,910 movie quite literally and it's very dark 771 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:16,130 there's a lot of side roads in there 772 00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:19,850 that kind of gravely and so if you pull 773 00:36:25,530 --> 00:36:22,400 in there you can always hear if someone 774 00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:25,540 is coming in back of you or ahead of you 775 00:36:32,050 --> 00:36:29,510 my friend linda was a neighbor of mine 776 00:36:34,990 --> 00:36:32,060 who moved to menands new york which is 777 00:36:36,970 --> 00:36:35,000 where the cemetery is located and she 778 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:36,980 was always just kind of like me kind of 779 00:36:41,590 --> 00:36:39,530 interested in the beyond and what 780 00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:41,600 happened and her mother had recently 781 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:43,910 passed away so she was running to card 782 00:36:48,730 --> 00:36:46,850 readers and psychics to try to scare up 783 00:36:50,299 --> 00:36:48,740 the ghost of her mother or something she 784 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:50,309 got kind of really into this 785 00:36:55,609 --> 00:36:53,249 aw maybe a little bit too much so so one 786 00:36:58,009 --> 00:36:55,619 afternoon I just came home from work and 787 00:37:00,829 --> 00:36:58,019 my phone rang and it was my old friend 788 00:37:04,189 --> 00:37:00,839 Linda and she's a nurse at the Veterans 789 00:37:06,679 --> 00:37:04,199 Memorial Hospital in Albany and outside 790 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:06,689 of her interest in the paranormal she's 791 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:08,729 fairly well grounded she's very 792 00:37:14,359 --> 00:37:10,890 intelligent she's probably I think 793 00:37:17,059 --> 00:37:14,369 Linda's about 60 now so the phone rang 794 00:37:19,279 --> 00:37:17,069 and she said are you sitting down and I 795 00:37:22,339 --> 00:37:19,289 said yeah why and she said well 796 00:37:24,529 --> 00:37:22,349 something really upsetting happened to 797 00:37:26,660 --> 00:37:24,539 me but she said I was more angry than 798 00:37:28,999 --> 00:37:26,670 scared and she said you're the only 799 00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:29,009 person I know who would won't laugh at 800 00:37:35,209 --> 00:37:32,209 me and I said well gee you know tell me 801 00:37:36,949 --> 00:37:35,219 so she said you know I wanted to go in 802 00:37:39,620 --> 00:37:36,959 this historical tour of the cemetery 803 00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:39,630 since I just had this yin to go over 804 00:37:44,689 --> 00:37:41,430 there after work and it was a beautiful 805 00:37:47,089 --> 00:37:44,699 day it was in may and at the time of 806 00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:47,099 year around that time of year there's 807 00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:49,680 something called milkweed in our area I 808 00:37:53,509 --> 00:37:51,089 don't know if you you're familiar with 809 00:37:56,329 --> 00:37:53,519 it but it kind of covers your card blows 810 00:37:58,009 --> 00:37:56,339 through the air it's kind of annoying 811 00:38:00,049 --> 00:37:58,019 you have two kinds of kind of put your 812 00:38:02,989 --> 00:38:00,059 windshield wipers on sometimes to get it 813 00:38:04,459 --> 00:38:02,999 off the windshield of your car and she 814 00:38:07,459 --> 00:38:04,469 said the first thing I noticed when I 815 00:38:10,339 --> 00:38:07,469 pulled in there that she said I you know 816 00:38:12,919 --> 00:38:10,349 I could hardly see so she says I decided 817 00:38:15,890 --> 00:38:12,929 to go up this one side hill and just 818 00:38:18,469 --> 00:38:15,900 park the car and walk around because I 819 00:38:21,259 --> 00:38:18,479 couldn't see very well and as you pull 820 00:38:24,469 --> 00:38:21,269 into this place there's a huge gothic 821 00:38:26,989 --> 00:38:24,479 place right on the big building built in 822 00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:26,999 the 1800's on the left hand side right 823 00:38:32,380 --> 00:38:29,369 through the big iron gates and that is 824 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:32,390 the office and that holds literally 825 00:38:37,759 --> 00:38:34,650 records to everyone who was very very 826 00:38:40,789 --> 00:38:37,769 ever buried there and this includes 827 00:38:42,829 --> 00:38:40,799 president Chester Arthur who is the 21st 828 00:38:45,979 --> 00:38:42,839 president of the United States kind of 829 00:38:49,759 --> 00:38:45,989 little known at now I think his all but 830 00:38:53,049 --> 00:38:49,769 forgotten but he's there and Daniel 831 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:53,059 Manning who was served under President 832 00:39:01,579 --> 00:38:55,890 Cleveland as a secretary of the Treasury 833 00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:01,589 and it literally contains most of the 834 00:39:06,170 --> 00:39:04,110 aristocracy of the early 835 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:06,180 settlements in Albany and they were 836 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:09,450 mostly Dutch but the crypts are 837 00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:12,210 absolutely beautiful ornate they look 838 00:39:16,730 --> 00:39:14,480 like little houses they're extremely 839 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:16,740 they're beautiful actually the way they 840 00:39:21,740 --> 00:39:19,650 made some made out of marble so Linda 841 00:39:23,930 --> 00:39:21,750 got the end to go up there and just take 842 00:39:26,690 --> 00:39:23,940 a little walk for herself and kind of 843 00:39:29,150 --> 00:39:26,700 you know go on she described it his 844 00:39:32,810 --> 00:39:29,160 historical tour and it was a beautiful 845 00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:32,820 day so she pulled up the side road in 846 00:39:38,060 --> 00:39:35,160 fact I've been there many times it's in 847 00:39:40,700 --> 00:39:38,070 back of the Gothic house on top of a 848 00:39:44,450 --> 00:39:40,710 hill and she said I pulled over to the 849 00:39:46,970 --> 00:39:44,460 side and she said I turned the ignition 850 00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:46,980 off her you know went to take my my keys 851 00:39:51,830 --> 00:39:49,710 out and she said in the space of a 852 00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:51,840 second she says there was no one in that 853 00:39:57,890 --> 00:39:54,960 place and she would have heard it if the 854 00:40:00,170 --> 00:39:57,900 car had been coming within two seconds 855 00:40:04,070 --> 00:40:00,180 she says I looked up and in my rear 856 00:40:06,830 --> 00:40:04,080 mirror here was his huge and she 857 00:40:10,310 --> 00:40:06,840 described it as a Hummer she said it was 858 00:40:14,330 --> 00:40:10,320 a huge like a military-type Hummer all 859 00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:14,340 black black tinted windows big huge 860 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:17,400 black tires no milk weed on the thing at 861 00:40:21,650 --> 00:40:19,050 all and she said and I still remember 862 00:40:23,570 --> 00:40:21,660 his exact quote she said it looks like 863 00:40:25,790 --> 00:40:23,580 they had just driven it out of a 864 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:25,800 showroom it was completely a new vehicle 865 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:29,370 and it came so close to her and again I 866 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:32,250 this always rings in my head she said it 867 00:40:35,660 --> 00:40:33,930 they could have been in my backseat they 868 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:35,670 were just too close they came right up 869 00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:39,690 out of nowhere so Linda is a red-blooded 870 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:42,240 a good old Italian girl and she has got 871 00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:45,290 one temper and I can attest to that and 872 00:40:50,420 --> 00:40:48,060 she said instead of getting scared she 873 00:40:51,740 --> 00:40:50,430 said I was really mad she said at first 874 00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:51,750 I thought they were going to rob me or 875 00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:54,480 worse but she said I wasn't thinking 876 00:40:59,960 --> 00:40:58,560 anything paranormal so you know she said 877 00:41:01,640 --> 00:40:59,970 I was trying to sitting there waiting 878 00:41:04,370 --> 00:41:01,650 for the next move to see if they would 879 00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:04,380 get out of the car or what and she said 880 00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:06,510 to my amazement they kind of backed up 881 00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:11,280 away from her and made a u-turn and as I 882 00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:13,440 said there were many side roads in the 883 00:41:17,410 --> 00:41:15,720 cemetery they're everywhere and she said 884 00:41:19,299 --> 00:41:17,420 i watched it go down one of these 885 00:41:21,010 --> 00:41:19,309 side roads until the top of it 886 00:41:22,420 --> 00:41:21,020 disappeared and she says I was going to 887 00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:22,430 run after it and just see who they were 888 00:41:28,359 --> 00:41:26,720 and she said imagine when I since I was 889 00:41:30,549 --> 00:41:28,369 right after this thing and when I got 890 00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,559 over to this so-called road was nothing 891 00:41:35,020 --> 00:41:32,480 there but a chain-link fence was a bunch 892 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:35,030 of graves on the other side so she said 893 00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:36,890 this thing actually vanished into thin 894 00:41:41,980 --> 00:41:40,250 air it was there one moment and just it 895 00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:41,990 was no there was nowhere to go unless it 896 00:41:47,789 --> 00:41:44,960 just you know disappeared so she turned 897 00:41:50,500 --> 00:41:47,799 around and went down this hill right 898 00:41:53,380 --> 00:41:50,510 right by the office where she had come 899 00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:53,390 in and in the middle of this black very 900 00:41:58,780 --> 00:41:55,839 wide macadam road where you first enter 901 00:42:00,460 --> 00:41:58,790 was this black vehicle and it was right 902 00:42:02,109 --> 00:42:00,470 in the middle of the road and she said I 903 00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:02,119 had the feeling they were waiting for me 904 00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:05,359 and she said outside of the the thing 905 00:42:11,170 --> 00:42:08,240 was very tall skinny man all in black 906 00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:11,180 looked like everything was brand new his 907 00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:14,480 black shirt black tie black she called 908 00:42:19,150 --> 00:42:17,630 it a pork pie hat like I guess the 909 00:42:23,260 --> 00:42:19,160 gangsters used to wear in the old B 910 00:42:25,569 --> 00:42:23,270 movies in the 30s or 40s and black shiny 911 00:42:28,270 --> 00:42:25,579 shoe she says I actually even noted his 912 00:42:30,819 --> 00:42:28,280 shoes and he was like turn toward the 913 00:42:32,260 --> 00:42:30,829 car like he was talking to somebody and 914 00:42:33,700 --> 00:42:32,270 actually look like he was speaking at 915 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:33,710 somebody but she said the window was 916 00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:37,130 rolled up and she said I he turned 917 00:42:42,549 --> 00:42:39,200 around very slowly and he had black 918 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:42,559 wraparound sunglasses and she said he 919 00:42:46,750 --> 00:42:44,510 just kind of looked down like over the 920 00:42:48,700 --> 00:42:46,760 top of the glasses at her and she says I 921 00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:48,710 just punched it she says I just got out 922 00:42:52,359 --> 00:42:50,000 of there and she says when I looked 923 00:42:55,210 --> 00:42:52,369 around they were gone they completely 924 00:42:59,890 --> 00:42:55,220 blinked out the man the car everything 925 00:43:03,250 --> 00:42:59,900 so of course I had just got finished of 926 00:43:05,770 --> 00:43:03,260 the year before reading a book by Ken 927 00:43:07,420 --> 00:43:05,780 beckley the silencers which was the 928 00:43:11,410 --> 00:43:07,430 first time I ever heard of the men in 929 00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:11,420 black and it was a really great read and 930 00:43:15,819 --> 00:43:13,040 you know I was aware of what these 931 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:15,829 things were but I wasn't concentrating 932 00:43:20,740 --> 00:43:18,290 on them are thinking of the book or 933 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:20,750 anything so when she told me I said 934 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:22,970 Linda I said that sounds like something 935 00:43:28,930 --> 00:43:25,970 that's timothy green beckley road writes 936 00:43:30,490 --> 00:43:28,940 about and talks about and i said the 937 00:43:31,330 --> 00:43:30,500 coleman man in black and they're usually 938 00:43:33,340 --> 00:43:31,340 seen around 939 00:43:35,260 --> 00:43:33,350 the time of UFO sightings and I said did 940 00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:35,270 you see anything like that and she said 941 00:43:40,420 --> 00:43:38,000 no she said well I swear on my mother's 942 00:43:43,750 --> 00:43:40,430 grave that this happened and she is not 943 00:43:46,750 --> 00:43:43,760 a frivolous person she's very sincere 944 00:43:50,850 --> 00:43:46,760 and you know would you can take it to 945 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:50,860 the bank if she says that happened so 946 00:43:56,710 --> 00:43:53,810 anyway of course I got on the computer 947 00:43:59,440 --> 00:43:56,720 and I immediately googled albany rural 948 00:44:03,100 --> 00:43:59,450 cemetery and i was amazed to find that 949 00:44:05,740 --> 00:44:03,110 not only are there the sinister looking 950 00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:05,750 men and black disappearing black 951 00:44:11,230 --> 00:44:08,720 vehicles but around the pond and the 952 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:11,240 cemetery there is actually seen at 953 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:13,690 certain nights of the year a funeral 954 00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:17,330 procession and the people are dressed in 955 00:44:23,380 --> 00:44:20,960 the garb of maybe the 1800s and the 956 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:23,390 ladies have the long black mourning 957 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:26,450 clothes with the black veils and there's 958 00:44:32,260 --> 00:44:28,730 the casket in the back of a horse drawn 959 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:32,270 carriage and i'm going by reports that I 960 00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:34,850 I can only tell you I read this on the 961 00:44:39,570 --> 00:44:36,800 internet but people have seen this and 962 00:44:43,330 --> 00:44:39,580 now you do you think that this is a 963 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:43,340 thing that's going on or is it a psychic 964 00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:47,330 a ghostly manifestation um I I have come 965 00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:49,730 to the conclusion in my own life that 966 00:44:55,590 --> 00:44:52,910 it's of demonic realm and this is my 967 00:44:58,570 --> 00:44:55,600 feeling I could be wrong but I believe 968 00:45:00,280 --> 00:44:58,580 there's something evil spirits in there 969 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:00,290 and they're probably in every Cemetery I 970 00:45:06,670 --> 00:45:01,850 think there any place where there is 971 00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:06,680 darkness or unhappiness I think it the 972 00:45:13,930 --> 00:45:10,760 energy draws these these creatures but 973 00:45:17,410 --> 00:45:13,940 another thing my niece who you have met 974 00:45:21,070 --> 00:45:17,420 a few times oh yes yes Emily left big 975 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:21,080 fan of yours oh well sometimes somebody 976 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:23,690 has to be oh no she thinks you're just 977 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:26,930 the greatest all very loved you and you 978 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:31,010 humble me immensely well it's true and 979 00:45:36,340 --> 00:45:33,050 she was when she was going to college 980 00:45:38,770 --> 00:45:36,350 used to ride a bus with a young boy who 981 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:38,780 would often sit next to her and he was 982 00:45:43,450 --> 00:45:40,610 the caretaker one of them at the 983 00:45:44,859 --> 00:45:43,460 cemetery and he she got talking about 984 00:45:46,210 --> 00:45:44,869 because they would go past this image 985 00:45:48,370 --> 00:45:46,220 and he said well you know I work there 986 00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:48,380 and he said I opened it up in the 987 00:45:52,210 --> 00:45:50,480 morning just before the dawn and he said 988 00:45:56,109 --> 00:45:52,220 I'm the last one out at night it just 989 00:45:58,720 --> 00:45:56,119 that dusk and he said many many many 990 00:46:01,390 --> 00:45:58,730 mornings when I'm there I'll see this 991 00:46:02,980 --> 00:46:01,400 older lady all in black and she looks 992 00:46:06,849 --> 00:46:02,990 like something out of the last century 993 00:46:09,549 --> 00:46:06,859 or you know it late 1800s and she just 994 00:46:12,039 --> 00:46:09,559 nods to him and she says why good 995 00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:12,049 morning and he he says I just think the 996 00:46:15,489 --> 00:46:13,730 morning ma'am and you know she just 997 00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:15,499 vanishes right in front of me she she he 998 00:46:20,529 --> 00:46:16,910 said oh I'm not afraid of her anymore 999 00:46:23,019 --> 00:46:20,539 she's a good ghost or whatever she is so 1000 00:46:27,249 --> 00:46:23,029 that's another thing and also reported 1001 00:46:30,039 --> 00:46:27,259 are there is a couple who hold hands and 1002 00:46:31,930 --> 00:46:30,049 float over the headstones at in their 1003 00:46:35,140 --> 00:46:31,940 pajamas at dusk which is kind of well 1004 00:46:39,460 --> 00:46:35,150 atleast surge at least addressed their 1005 00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:39,470 dress right yeah that i like i like i 1006 00:46:44,559 --> 00:46:41,440 like i like that story that to be a 1007 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:44,569 sensitive organic but but remember we 1008 00:46:49,660 --> 00:46:46,970 should remind the listeners that who is 1009 00:46:55,779 --> 00:46:49,670 buried there but charles fort so yeah 1010 00:46:59,950 --> 00:46:55,789 we've got the the king of the unusual 1011 00:47:02,769 --> 00:46:59,960 and the bizarre right there in spirit no 1012 00:47:05,529 --> 00:47:02,779 doubt drawing upon that all this energy 1013 00:47:07,749 --> 00:47:05,539 or watching over what goes on in the 1014 00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:07,759 cemetery you know sometime maybe we 1015 00:47:14,829 --> 00:47:10,880 ought to have a seance a claudia and and 1016 00:47:17,349 --> 00:47:14,839 see ya wow if we can bring it in the 1017 00:47:19,839 --> 00:47:17,359 spirit of the great charles fort because 1018 00:47:24,819 --> 00:47:19,849 i think all of us here on the panel 1019 00:47:26,799 --> 00:47:24,829 today if it wasn't for low in the book 1020 00:47:29,259 --> 00:47:26,809 of the Damned we probably wouldn't be 1021 00:47:30,999 --> 00:47:29,269 discussing these topics well he was the 1022 00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:31,009 father of it in this country anyway 1023 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:33,680 that's for sure well Tim we're going to 1024 00:47:40,450 --> 00:47:37,249 have to take our break right now I hear 1025 00:47:43,089 --> 00:47:40,460 the music welling up in the distance 1026 00:47:46,180 --> 00:47:43,099 it's the music of the spheres no that's 1027 00:47:47,799 --> 00:47:46,190 right that's dad's right alright well 1028 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:47,809 we'll continue our conversation about 1029 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:00,979 explore the bazaars are your e-ticket 1030 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:03,650 ride into the world of the paranoid 1031 00:48:11,229 --> 00:48:06,930 strap yourself in as we traverse the 1032 00:48:16,370 --> 00:48:11,239 universe exploring the unexplained UFO s 1033 00:48:20,059 --> 00:48:16,380 ghosts lost world cryptozoology as well 1034 00:48:24,319 --> 00:48:20,069 as other dimensions it's time to take 1035 00:48:26,569 --> 00:48:24,329 back the night last night now your 1036 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:26,579 electrifying hosts of exploring the 1037 00:48:33,759 --> 00:48:31,249 bizarre Timothy beckley and team sports 1038 00:48:36,890 --> 00:48:33,769 yeah you know you know all this 1039 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:36,900 Lightning has burnt my finger tips off I 1040 00:48:42,799 --> 00:48:39,690 swear wait this is this is the tenth 1041 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:42,809 week of exploring the bizarre and you 1042 00:48:46,999 --> 00:48:44,729 know I've just stuff I got to stop from 1043 00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:47,009 wearing those antennae around because 1044 00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:48,960 they they really just attract the 1045 00:48:53,269 --> 00:48:50,910 lightning bolts and it's two or three 1046 00:48:56,329 --> 00:48:53,279 times a show but what the heck you know 1047 00:48:58,849 --> 00:48:56,339 I I've always like I said my interest in 1048 00:49:00,349 --> 00:48:58,859 the men in black goes back to I think 1049 00:49:04,039 --> 00:49:00,359 believe it or not when I was in the 1050 00:49:08,959 --> 00:49:04,049 fourth grade I had to do a book review 1051 00:49:13,009 --> 00:49:08,969 and so I was interested in UFOs I had 1052 00:49:15,170 --> 00:49:13,019 had a UFO sighting at the age 10 and i 1053 00:49:18,499 --> 00:49:15,180 picked they knew too much about flying 1054 00:49:21,709 --> 00:49:18,509 saucers by grave marker and it was a 1055 00:49:23,479 --> 00:49:21,719 fascinating read it still is if you're 1056 00:49:25,579 --> 00:49:23,489 gonna if you're gonna get into the men 1057 00:49:28,450 --> 00:49:25,589 in black I mean that's that's one book 1058 00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:28,460 that you've gotta head to your library 1059 00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:32,569 anyway so I read the book and I wrote a 1060 00:49:36,709 --> 00:49:35,609 book review on it was probably only 11 I 1061 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:36,719 think I actually came across that 1062 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:38,729 recently it was like a page and a half 1063 00:49:46,039 --> 00:49:40,890 you know what written in red pen on 1064 00:49:48,349 --> 00:49:46,049 lined paper but heck I got a b-plus on 1065 00:49:52,430 --> 00:49:48,359 it and believe you me i don't think i 1066 00:49:55,009 --> 00:49:52,440 got a too many B pluses in in school but 1067 00:49:56,499 --> 00:49:55,019 the the irony of the whole situation and 1068 00:49:58,190 --> 00:49:56,509 of course I've always been into 1069 00:50:00,920 --> 00:49:58,200 synchronicities because they seem to 1070 00:50:02,599 --> 00:50:00,930 follow me around is that the author of 1071 00:50:05,690 --> 00:50:02,609 the book Ray Parker who I did not know a 1072 00:50:08,180 --> 00:50:05,700 course at the time ended up being a 1073 00:50:09,950 --> 00:50:08,190 close friend of mine he published my 1074 00:50:14,180 --> 00:50:09,960 first three books on 1075 00:50:16,910 --> 00:50:14,190 UFOs and when he passed away i bought 1076 00:50:19,609 --> 00:50:16,920 the last 50 copies of they knew too much 1077 00:50:21,710 --> 00:50:19,619 about flying saucers in hardcover so 1078 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:21,720 well you know that that's a book 1079 00:50:29,300 --> 00:50:25,410 obviously that had a pretty strong 1080 00:50:34,190 --> 00:50:29,310 impact on my belief system as far as the 1081 00:50:36,770 --> 00:50:34,200 UFOs and the paranormal goes and like I 1082 00:50:38,359 --> 00:50:36,780 said before I I had my own this has been 1083 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:38,369 on television and I've talked about this 1084 00:50:45,770 --> 00:50:41,130 a few times but I had my own and might 1085 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:45,780 be experienced back in the the 1960s 1086 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:48,930 like 66 67 there was a wave of sightings 1087 00:50:55,310 --> 00:50:51,570 up up and down the east coast but 1088 00:50:58,550 --> 00:50:55,320 particularly in New York and in New 1089 00:51:00,200 --> 00:50:58,560 Jersey now there was i I was on the 1090 00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:00,210 staff of saucer news which was Jim 1091 00:51:05,780 --> 00:51:03,680 Mosley's magazine and one of the 1092 00:51:09,050 --> 00:51:05,790 assistant editors was a fella by the 1093 00:51:11,060 --> 00:51:09,060 name of john j robinson and he we had 1094 00:51:14,570 --> 00:51:11,070 our office in New York but the jack and 1095 00:51:16,250 --> 00:51:14,580 his wife Mary lived over Jersey City now 1096 00:51:19,370 --> 00:51:16,260 you take the path train over and it 1097 00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:19,380 takes like 10 or 15 minutes and Jack 1098 00:51:24,140 --> 00:51:21,510 worked in the city he worked at what are 1099 00:51:26,510 --> 00:51:24,150 the banks I believe well anyway well 1100 00:51:28,190 --> 00:51:26,520 Jack went to work in the morning and 1101 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:28,200 Mary would go out doing the shopping and 1102 00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:31,410 other errands she reported seeing a 1103 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:34,800 strange individual standing in the 1104 00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:37,290 doorway right next to the in the 1105 00:51:41,690 --> 00:51:39,440 building right next to where they lived 1106 00:51:43,310 --> 00:51:41,700 dressed in black with the hat and the 1107 00:51:47,150 --> 00:51:43,320 whole the whole bit just like we've 1108 00:51:48,770 --> 00:51:47,160 described seemingly looking you know and 1109 00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:48,780 everybody coming in and out of the 1110 00:51:54,500 --> 00:51:51,359 building now Jack had been involved in 1111 00:51:57,170 --> 00:51:54,510 an investigation of UFO a UFO case which 1112 00:52:00,680 --> 00:51:57,180 involved for teenage boys who had seen a 1113 00:52:03,079 --> 00:52:00,690 object land in a nearby park and some 1114 00:52:04,339 --> 00:52:03,089 humanoid creatures get out of the the 1115 00:52:06,829 --> 00:52:04,349 ship and I think they scurried around 1116 00:52:10,130 --> 00:52:06,839 and dug up some soil samples and went 1117 00:52:13,550 --> 00:52:10,140 back into the craft and while they were 1118 00:52:15,620 --> 00:52:13,560 being interviewed there was a black 1119 00:52:18,349 --> 00:52:15,630 Cadillac that was parked across the the 1120 00:52:20,359 --> 00:52:18,359 down the block or maybe a block and a 1121 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:20,369 half away seemingly somebody looking 1122 00:52:23,780 --> 00:52:22,290 through the tinted windows you know 1123 00:52:25,850 --> 00:52:23,790 there were rolled partly down 1124 00:52:30,650 --> 00:52:25,860 at the boys being interviewed about 1125 00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:30,660 their UFO in humanoid encounter anyway a 1126 00:52:34,510 --> 00:52:32,880 jack at around this time that this 1127 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:34,520 individual was standing in the doorway 1128 00:52:38,750 --> 00:52:37,290 reported that his a telephone apparently 1129 00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:38,760 somebody was eavesdropping on the 1130 00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:40,110 conversation you know there were strange 1131 00:52:45,830 --> 00:52:42,720 clicks and whines and whistles on the on 1132 00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:45,840 the phone like people have her reported 1133 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:48,960 over the years and one time he came back 1134 00:52:54,380 --> 00:52:52,170 you know from his job in the afternoon 1135 00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,390 and somebody had been in the apartment 1136 00:52:58,610 --> 00:52:56,640 had taken some of the folders about this 1137 00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:58,620 particular case and spread them all over 1138 00:53:03,100 --> 00:53:01,200 the floor anyway there was a whole 1139 00:53:05,540 --> 00:53:03,110 series of events that was going on and 1140 00:53:08,270 --> 00:53:05,550 marry his wife claimed that she saw this 1141 00:53:10,070 --> 00:53:08,280 individual standing in the doorway while 1142 00:53:12,620 --> 00:53:10,080 she would do her shopping in the morning 1143 00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:12,630 so Jim Moseley and I well we didn't know 1144 00:53:15,290 --> 00:53:13,920 whether to believe him or not with her 1145 00:53:16,580 --> 00:53:15,300 and you know it's an interesting story 1146 00:53:19,490 --> 00:53:16,590 but maybe they're just trying to get our 1147 00:53:21,830 --> 00:53:19,500 attention so what we decided to do was 1148 00:53:23,540 --> 00:53:21,840 take a trip over to Jersey City one 1149 00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:23,550 morning without telling Jack Emery that 1150 00:53:29,810 --> 00:53:26,400 we were coming sort of a surprise attack 1151 00:53:33,110 --> 00:53:29,820 if it were kind of your UFO SWAT team I 1152 00:53:35,690 --> 00:53:33,120 suppose and we drove over Jim's car and 1153 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:35,700 I was in the passenger seat and we came 1154 00:53:45,470 --> 00:53:38,970 to the the block where Jack Murray lived 1155 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:45,480 and very very tightly tight would he 1156 00:53:49,940 --> 00:53:47,970 like you know traffic i'm parked on both 1157 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:49,950 sides of the street and a very very 1158 00:53:56,090 --> 00:53:53,610 narrow road to to drive on by everybody 1159 00:53:58,850 --> 00:53:56,100 double-parked you know I mean illegally 1160 00:54:01,820 --> 00:53:58,860 and he's a neighborhood neighborhood the 1161 00:54:05,090 --> 00:54:01,830 setting you know residential apartment 1162 00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:05,100 buildings and a barber shop I think on 1163 00:54:10,580 --> 00:54:07,280 the on the block there may be a little 1164 00:54:12,530 --> 00:54:10,590 grocery store or something anyway as we 1165 00:54:14,660 --> 00:54:12,540 pulled up to the building we noticed 1166 00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:14,670 that indeed there was somebody standing 1167 00:54:20,300 --> 00:54:16,800 in the doorway and there was a black 1168 00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:20,310 Cadillac a black car of some sort parked 1169 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:23,370 at the curb so Jim gave me his camera 1170 00:54:26,930 --> 00:54:24,690 and I took a photograph of the 1171 00:54:28,910 --> 00:54:26,940 individual in the doorway which is 1172 00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:28,920 public availability see it on the 1173 00:54:33,140 --> 00:54:30,480 internet you can google adjustment and 1174 00:54:36,620 --> 00:54:33,150 blacked in beckley and a photograph of 1175 00:54:37,609 --> 00:54:36,630 the car and Jim suggested that I get out 1176 00:54:39,140 --> 00:54:37,619 and confront this 1177 00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:39,150 individual and find out what he was 1178 00:54:44,299 --> 00:54:41,940 doing there well we decided we would 1179 00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:44,309 pull around the block and then come back 1180 00:54:47,900 --> 00:54:46,529 in double park or try to find the park 1181 00:54:50,599 --> 00:54:47,910 space or something and I would get out 1182 00:54:52,249 --> 00:54:50,609 and and confront this individual well it 1183 00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:52,259 probably took us because of the traffic 1184 00:54:56,420 --> 00:54:54,480 flow about 10 minutes to get around the 1185 00:55:00,049 --> 00:54:56,430 block when we got there the individual 1186 00:55:01,700 --> 00:55:00,059 was gone and so was the car but I did 1187 00:55:04,009 --> 00:55:01,710 take a photograph of him it's but like I 1188 00:55:06,370 --> 00:55:04,019 say it's been published and the strange 1189 00:55:08,989 --> 00:55:06,380 thing about this instead of the mid 1190 00:55:11,299 --> 00:55:08,999 frightening us it seems like we 1191 00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:11,309 frightened him because Jack never had 1192 00:55:16,249 --> 00:55:14,130 Jack Mary never had a never reported as 1193 00:55:18,249 --> 00:55:16,259 seeing this individual again and 1194 00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,259 apparently the telephone calls 1195 00:55:23,089 --> 00:55:20,640 mysterious telephone calls and in the 1196 00:55:25,249 --> 00:55:23,099 beatings and stuff stopped after that so 1197 00:55:27,970 --> 00:55:25,259 I i would say that i have the power to 1198 00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:27,980 stop the men in black in there right 1199 00:55:35,059 --> 00:55:31,440 yeah I did Tim I have a question real 1200 00:55:37,700 --> 00:55:35,069 quick I remember seeing a picture of the 1201 00:55:40,370 --> 00:55:37,710 Robinsons in i think it was a saucer 1202 00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:40,380 aenean magazine and they were in their 1203 00:55:45,319 --> 00:55:42,690 living room and I think Oh were they 1204 00:55:49,249 --> 00:55:45,329 played with like a Ouija board yeah well 1205 00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:49,259 Mary yeah now Jack was a I wouldn't say 1206 00:55:53,299 --> 00:55:51,839 he was a nuts-and-bolts man he was on 1207 00:55:56,029 --> 00:55:53,309 the Long John Neville show a couple of 1208 00:55:58,009 --> 00:55:56,039 times with Jim Mosley he was a fan of 1209 00:56:02,239 --> 00:55:58,019 the shaver mystery and the Inner Earth 1210 00:56:05,569 --> 00:56:02,249 but and kind of a member of the inner 1211 00:56:08,989 --> 00:56:05,579 circle he knew a guy roberts and dominic 1212 00:56:12,739 --> 00:56:08,999 Luke chassis and in gray a barker and 1213 00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:12,749 alberta k bender and he wrote about a 1214 00:56:17,509 --> 00:56:15,119 lot of these you know strange things in 1215 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:17,519 fact in my book the UFO silences i have 1216 00:56:21,559 --> 00:56:19,410 the whole with a story that the jack 1217 00:56:25,999 --> 00:56:21,569 wrote it probably comes out to 10 or 12 1218 00:56:29,210 --> 00:56:26,009 pages but his wife Mary uh was more into 1219 00:56:32,660 --> 00:56:29,220 the psychic stuff than then than he was 1220 00:56:34,999 --> 00:56:32,670 and she did dabble in in the the Ouija 1221 00:56:38,269 --> 00:56:35,009 board so again we could say perhaps as 1222 00:56:40,970 --> 00:56:38,279 she conjured this individual up i don't 1223 00:56:45,289 --> 00:56:40,980 know but yeah she was she was definitely 1224 00:56:47,599 --> 00:56:45,299 into the Calton and Jack was just to 1225 00:56:49,279 --> 00:56:47,609 some degree but more into the ufos in 1226 00:56:51,410 --> 00:56:49,289 the in the Inner Earth which of course 1227 00:56:54,589 --> 00:56:51,420 with the D Rho in the shaver mystery 1228 00:56:57,770 --> 00:56:54,599 it can be a somewhat de menacing and 1229 00:57:00,200 --> 00:56:57,780 dark and perhaps they did draw you know 1230 00:57:03,140 --> 00:57:00,210 something that some negativity to them 1231 00:57:04,849 --> 00:57:03,150 although the men in this guy the the mid 1232 00:57:06,260 --> 00:57:04,859 that was standing in the doorway he 1233 00:57:08,780 --> 00:57:06,270 never as far as I know actually 1234 00:57:10,370 --> 00:57:08,790 threatened anyone he was more like if 1235 00:57:12,859 --> 00:57:10,380 you look at the photograph to me looks 1236 00:57:15,470 --> 00:57:12,869 like a stone statue I mean just very 1237 00:57:18,319 --> 00:57:15,480 very rigid and and very you know a 1238 00:57:20,390 --> 00:57:18,329 straight standing and the most peculiar 1239 00:57:22,609 --> 00:57:20,400 thing about him I think is his shoes it 1240 00:57:24,620 --> 00:57:22,619 looks like something puck the fairy 1241 00:57:26,599 --> 00:57:24,630 would would wear or sighs yeah I don't 1242 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:26,609 know just just very peculiar and of 1243 00:57:31,609 --> 00:57:28,290 course now Jim thought it was a 1244 00:57:33,109 --> 00:57:31,619 mortician or a member of the local mob 1245 00:57:35,900 --> 00:57:33,119 or something like that but I've see no 1246 00:57:38,599 --> 00:57:35,910 reason to to indicate that's the that 1247 00:57:41,150 --> 00:57:38,609 was the case but hey Nick why don't you 1248 00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:41,160 tell us pick one or two would cases out 1249 00:57:46,430 --> 00:57:43,290 of your recent book men and black 1250 00:57:49,789 --> 00:57:46,440 personal stories and eerie adventures 1251 00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:49,799 and in TSYS with them I mean what do you 1252 00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:51,569 think are some of the best tales that 1253 00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:54,480 you present in that book well well 1254 00:57:58,730 --> 00:57:56,640 certainly one of the creepiest was given 1255 00:58:02,480 --> 00:57:58,740 to me by a guy named Peter Beckman and 1256 00:58:04,339 --> 00:58:02,490 peter is a well-known voiceover artist 1257 00:58:06,049 --> 00:58:04,349 in the entertainment industry and 1258 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:06,059 there's a lot of work for like sci-fi 1259 00:58:12,470 --> 00:58:10,530 channel and things like that and back in 1260 00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:12,480 the late nineteen told me a story a 1261 00:58:20,450 --> 00:58:14,480 couple years ago which is in the book 1262 00:58:23,089 --> 00:58:20,460 how back in the late 1960s 1969 he and a 1263 00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:23,099 friend were hanging out at this house 1264 00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:25,049 that one that one evening parents wrote 1265 00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:28,319 only sort of 18 and 19 at the time and 1266 00:58:35,450 --> 00:58:32,130 this was just after rosaries baby the 1267 00:58:38,539 --> 00:58:35,460 Robin Polanski movie came out and that 1268 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:38,549 she had a friend in the audiovisual 1269 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:40,650 industry and they got a copy of a 1270 00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:43,170 soundtrack of the movie and they were 1271 00:58:49,970 --> 00:58:46,079 just hanging out listening to the 1272 00:58:53,870 --> 00:58:49,980 soundtrack and taking a few psychedelics 1273 00:58:57,500 --> 00:58:53,880 as well and site psychedelics really yes 1274 00:59:01,339 --> 00:58:57,510 oh okay go and pay to tell me how as 1275 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:01,349 they got to one particular track on the 1276 00:59:05,319 --> 00:59:03,450 soundtrack which is essentially tiding 1277 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:05,329 in the movie with the black mass 1278 00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:07,450 action he said that a very strange 1279 00:59:13,059 --> 00:59:11,450 atmosphere came over the entire house he 1280 00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:13,069 was almost like a you know a chill wind 1281 00:59:19,329 --> 00:59:16,400 blew in so to speak and there was some 1282 00:59:20,859 --> 00:59:19,339 of his knock at the door and when they 1283 00:59:23,829 --> 00:59:20,869 opened the door there were these two 1284 00:59:24,999 --> 00:59:23,839 ominous looking characters that he said 1285 00:59:26,319 --> 00:59:25,009 they kind of looked almost like they 1286 00:59:30,729 --> 00:59:26,329 were dead you know they looked pale 1287 00:59:33,489 --> 00:59:30,739 sickly wearing these badly fitting black 1288 00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:33,499 suits and essentially just walked into 1289 00:59:39,069 --> 00:59:36,319 the house it was very strange situation 1290 00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:39,079 where Peter was unable to remember the 1291 00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:41,930 entire situation but he felt with 1292 00:59:48,009 --> 00:59:45,440 hindsight that the psychedelics if you 1293 00:59:50,319 --> 00:59:48,019 like had opened a portal or a doorway 1294 00:59:53,079 --> 00:59:50,329 kind of like me you know the equivalent 1295 00:59:55,660 --> 00:59:53,089 with a shame and in these items in a 1296 00:59:58,180 --> 00:59:55,670 South American jungle ingesting a 1297 01:00:00,099 --> 00:59:58,190 psychedelic in communion with you know 1298 01:00:01,839 --> 01:00:00,109 supernatural entities he felt that it 1299 01:00:03,969 --> 01:00:01,849 was something like that that it wasn't a 1300 01:00:05,109 --> 01:00:03,979 case of them hallucinating because it 1301 01:00:08,199 --> 01:00:05,119 would have been like a combined 1302 01:00:10,209 --> 01:00:08,209 hallucination he felt that they in 1303 01:00:12,939 --> 01:00:10,219 conjunction with the music and the 1304 01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:12,949 setting and the psychedelics had opened 1305 01:00:17,259 --> 01:00:15,890 the portal that allowed these characters 1306 01:00:20,170 --> 01:00:17,269 to come through and as he turned out 1307 01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:20,180 they were classic men in black and there 1308 01:00:25,150 --> 01:00:23,119 was even a black car outside but like we 1309 01:00:27,849 --> 01:00:25,160 so many of these cases the car just 1310 01:00:29,469 --> 01:00:27,859 vanished into nothingness you and the 1311 01:00:31,329 --> 01:00:29,479 men in black banished into nothing they 1312 01:00:34,029 --> 01:00:31,339 were just gone and there was a very 1313 01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:34,039 creepy story and Peter tell me how he'd 1314 01:00:38,589 --> 01:00:35,930 never forgotten this primarily because 1315 01:00:41,019 --> 01:00:38,599 of the vehicle velvet owns the tie-in 1316 01:00:44,999 --> 01:00:41,029 with the movie you know which in itself 1317 01:00:47,259 --> 01:00:45,009 was about you know devil worship etc and 1318 01:00:49,660 --> 01:00:47,269 that was certainly you know one of the 1319 01:00:51,849 --> 01:00:49,670 most unsettling stories in the book one 1320 01:00:54,189 --> 01:00:51,859 of the ones that fascinated me was a 1321 01:00:56,319 --> 01:00:54,199 paper that David weatherly wrote david 1322 01:00:59,170 --> 01:00:56,329 votes company years ago the book the 1323 01:01:02,380 --> 01:00:59,180 black-eyed children and David wrote a 1324 01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:02,390 paper for the book drawing parallels 1325 01:01:06,249 --> 01:01:03,920 between the man in black and the 1326 01:01:08,109 --> 01:01:06,259 black-eyed children for example you know 1327 01:01:11,739 --> 01:01:08,119 they're both dressing black both are 1328 01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:11,749 pale skin the man in black wear black 1329 01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:15,049 hats the black-eyed children wear 1330 01:01:19,300 --> 01:01:17,690 hoodies and both groups try and find 1331 01:01:20,620 --> 01:01:19,310 ways to get into people's how 1332 01:01:23,470 --> 01:01:20,630 columns and that was just sort of a tip 1333 01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:23,480 of the iceberg and David presented sort 1334 01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:26,960 of fascinating parallels between these 1335 01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:28,880 black-eyed children that have been 1336 01:01:32,670 --> 01:01:30,410 servicing more and more in the last few 1337 01:01:36,100 --> 01:01:32,680 years and the original men in black 1338 01:01:38,530 --> 01:01:36,110 clearly demonstrating that in some 1339 01:01:43,390 --> 01:01:38,540 fashion they're both part of a bigger 1340 01:01:45,370 --> 01:01:43,400 mystery if you like so Nick what do you 1341 01:01:48,850 --> 01:01:45,380 conclude about all this I mean do you 1342 01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:48,860 have your own series or opinions as to 1343 01:01:54,970 --> 01:01:52,250 what the MIBs might be well I do I think 1344 01:01:57,550 --> 01:01:54,980 you know I think they were genuinely 1345 01:01:59,980 --> 01:01:57,560 weird many black are paranormal but of 1346 01:02:01,900 --> 01:01:59,990 course that then begs the question will 1347 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:01,910 head do we define the realm of the 1348 01:02:06,340 --> 01:02:04,010 paranormal you know that that's the big 1349 01:02:09,250 --> 01:02:06,350 issue I think we're dealing with things 1350 01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:09,260 that are sort of multi-dimensional that 1351 01:02:15,460 --> 01:02:12,410 sometimes manifesting our reality and 1352 01:02:17,890 --> 01:02:15,470 then they're gone again I think they 1353 01:02:19,570 --> 01:02:17,900 have the ability to kind of affect the 1354 01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:19,580 human mind so where many of these 1355 01:02:23,860 --> 01:02:22,250 encounters occur when the person is in 1356 01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:23,870 somewhat of an altered state and that's 1357 01:02:27,310 --> 01:02:25,490 why they open the front door and let 1358 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:27,320 these people in something you would 1359 01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:29,690 never know never normally do but they do 1360 01:02:33,610 --> 01:02:32,000 do it and I think it's because like 1361 01:02:36,550 --> 01:02:33,620 their common sense factors have almost 1362 01:02:40,690 --> 01:02:36,560 been taken over hijacked or mind 1363 01:02:43,060 --> 01:02:40,700 controlled so that my opinion is that 1364 01:02:45,190 --> 01:02:43,070 you know although I think some men in 1365 01:02:47,170 --> 01:02:45,200 black could be government people who 1366 01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:47,180 have taken on the guise of the men in 1367 01:02:52,630 --> 01:02:49,090 black because that imagery is 1368 01:02:54,790 --> 01:02:52,640 intimidating but the real ones as I said 1369 01:02:57,190 --> 01:02:54,800 I think are supernatural you know we've 1370 01:03:00,280 --> 01:02:57,200 I mean couple of examples they've been 1371 01:03:01,510 --> 01:03:00,290 men in black sightings involving Bigfoot 1372 01:03:03,670 --> 01:03:01,520 witnesses and loch ness monster 1373 01:03:07,090 --> 01:03:03,680 witnesses they've been visited by the 1374 01:03:09,370 --> 01:03:07,100 men in black I've got some cases where 1375 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:09,380 people have been using Ouija boards and 1376 01:03:15,220 --> 01:03:11,090 they were visited but but there was no 1377 01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:15,230 UFO component to it at all so I think 1378 01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:18,310 for the most part we can rule out 1379 01:03:23,110 --> 01:03:21,050 government agents apart from the cases 1380 01:03:25,930 --> 01:03:23,120 and where as I said when they adopt that 1381 01:03:27,970 --> 01:03:25,940 guys for intimidation purposes but the 1382 01:03:30,860 --> 01:03:27,980 real ones you know then nothing to do 1383 01:03:34,310 --> 01:03:30,870 with the Pentagon i'll be happy III 1384 01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:34,320 remember John keel had a a memo from the 1385 01:03:39,950 --> 01:03:36,810 I think it was the Pentagon or the Air 1386 01:03:41,450 --> 01:03:39,960 Force regarding the men in black stating 1387 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:41,460 that they were not responsible for these 1388 01:03:47,770 --> 01:03:43,890 cases and we're trying to find out who 1389 01:03:49,970 --> 01:03:47,780 was using their you know counterfeit 1390 01:03:51,290 --> 01:03:49,980 credentials you know the stating that 1391 01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:51,300 they were from the government apparently 1392 01:03:54,620 --> 01:03:53,250 there were agents going around the 1393 01:03:56,060 --> 01:03:54,630 claiming that they were government you 1394 01:03:59,450 --> 01:03:56,070 know from the government from various 1395 01:04:01,220 --> 01:03:59,460 FBI or whatever it they're right they 1396 01:04:04,990 --> 01:04:01,230 were actually dressed in military 1397 01:04:07,490 --> 01:04:05,000 uniforms you know Air Force especially 1398 01:04:09,470 --> 01:04:07,500 well yeah but interesting thing is 1399 01:04:11,060 --> 01:04:09,480 you're the men in black the term he's 1400 01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:11,070 like a catch-all I mean I've got some 1401 01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:13,530 cases where they turned up in like in 1402 01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:15,930 brown suits sometimes they were women 1403 01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:18,000 you know claiming to be census takers 1404 01:04:22,190 --> 01:04:20,850 and things like this so and today you 1405 01:04:25,100 --> 01:04:22,200 can look at things like the shadowpeople 1406 01:04:27,740 --> 01:04:25,110 the hat manners are known they all seem 1407 01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:27,750 like subcategories or you know they're 1408 01:04:32,210 --> 01:04:29,280 also having to link to all these 1409 01:04:34,090 --> 01:04:32,220 phenomena well I know there were there 1410 01:04:36,860 --> 01:04:34,100 were men in black a course that were 1411 01:04:39,950 --> 01:04:36,870 being seen on a pretty much regular 1412 01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:39,960 basis down in around the point pleasant 1413 01:04:45,380 --> 01:04:43,290 area when the Mothman sightings were 1414 01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:45,390 taking place it in fact I think that 1415 01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:49,050 John Nikhil said that some of them were 1416 01:04:54,770 --> 01:04:52,410 disguised as census takers and others 1417 01:04:57,110 --> 01:04:54,780 were coming around offering to take 1418 01:04:59,110 --> 01:04:57,120 photographs of those in the you know in 1419 01:05:02,230 --> 01:04:59,120 the household or something you know and 1420 01:05:04,550 --> 01:05:02,240 it was a whole very weird you know 1421 01:05:07,540 --> 01:05:04,560 incident that was taking place in a tied 1422 01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:07,550 in with the collapse of course of the 1423 01:05:17,390 --> 01:05:13,170 silver bridge now Steve we were going to 1424 01:05:20,660 --> 01:05:17,400 have on this evening Sharon who was the 1425 01:05:22,970 --> 01:05:20,670 who is the niece of Mary hyre now Mary 1426 01:05:26,270 --> 01:05:22,980 had worked as the one of the columnist 1427 01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:26,280 for the Athens Gazette and I she was 1428 01:05:30,610 --> 01:05:28,890 deeply involved in this and in fact I 1429 01:05:34,810 --> 01:05:30,620 know she had a couple of experiences 1430 01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:34,820 involving the men in black and 1431 01:05:40,940 --> 01:05:38,730 apparently she even had a dream sometime 1432 01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:40,950 before the silver bridge collapsed and 1433 01:05:44,450 --> 01:05:43,170 and she saw people and cars and all 1434 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:44,460 floating in the water and crisp 1435 01:05:48,890 --> 01:05:47,010 gifts and all it do you did you ever 1436 01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:48,900 talk to what you must have talked to 1437 01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:50,880 Sharon correct no actually I haven't 1438 01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:52,770 I've seen her speak at the festival but 1439 01:05:58,370 --> 01:05:55,250 I've never had a chance to eat all gone 1440 01:06:00,170 --> 01:05:58,380 uh yeah Mary had that a reoccurring 1441 01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:00,180 dream of a Christmas package is floating 1442 01:06:04,579 --> 01:06:02,130 in the water I don't know she connected 1443 01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:04,589 it to the I think at that time both she 1444 01:06:08,050 --> 01:06:06,690 and keel they they felt something was 1445 01:06:10,490 --> 01:06:08,060 happening you nokia was getting those 1446 01:06:13,099 --> 01:06:10,500 strange messages through various 1447 01:06:15,740 --> 01:06:13,109 contactees that that really felt they 1448 01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:15,750 were in communication with you know with 1449 01:06:21,050 --> 01:06:17,970 some bizarre entities and you know like 1450 01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:21,060 the the Indrid cold character and an 1451 01:06:29,210 --> 01:06:24,210 apple you know apol they were very much 1452 01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:29,220 like MIB characters and they so they 1453 01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:31,650 they felt something really ominous was 1454 01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:32,970 about to happen but they could never 1455 01:06:38,359 --> 01:06:35,250 quite pin it down and i remember john 1456 01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:38,369 keel felt very blindsided when it was 1457 01:06:43,220 --> 01:06:40,290 the bridge collapsed yet he had didn't 1458 01:06:45,230 --> 01:06:43,230 really expect that well he was expecting 1459 01:06:49,430 --> 01:06:45,240 there was going to be an explosion yeah 1460 01:06:52,940 --> 01:06:49,440 but i had a plan to mo factory right but 1461 01:06:56,870 --> 01:06:52,950 i know i know that i know that Miriam 1462 01:06:59,839 --> 01:06:56,880 had a couple of incidences or episodes 1463 01:07:01,010 --> 01:06:59,849 involving the the men in black one of 1464 01:07:03,140 --> 01:07:01,020 them actually I think came into her 1465 01:07:05,810 --> 01:07:03,150 office one time and she described him as 1466 01:07:09,079 --> 01:07:05,820 being a very small black haired man with 1467 01:07:11,660 --> 01:07:09,089 hypnotic eyes who was dressed in a thin 1468 01:07:15,500 --> 01:07:11,670 shirt sleeve shirt and shoes was very 1469 01:07:17,329 --> 01:07:15,510 thick soled not yes I think yeah okay 1470 01:07:19,550 --> 01:07:17,339 well now what do you have any more 1471 01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:19,560 details remember any more details look 1472 01:07:26,300 --> 01:07:22,770 he was a just a real odd character he 1473 01:07:28,790 --> 01:07:26,310 was he stuttered he did jug you said you 1474 01:07:31,220 --> 01:07:28,800 had these hypnotic eyes he he picked up 1475 01:07:33,620 --> 01:07:31,230 a ballpoint pen off the table it seemed 1476 01:07:35,690 --> 01:07:33,630 to be fascinated by it like he had seen 1477 01:07:38,900 --> 01:07:35,700 that before that's a characteristic and 1478 01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:38,910 a lot of the MIB reports where there's 1479 01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:40,650 something odd there was the the 1480 01:07:47,270 --> 01:07:44,400 gentleman that tried to drink jello you 1481 01:07:50,270 --> 01:07:47,280 know there's the jack brown that was so 1482 01:07:54,890 --> 01:07:50,280 fascinated by a ballpoint pen I used to 1483 01:07:56,839 --> 01:07:54,900 I used to drink a jello jello shots so 1484 01:07:58,250 --> 01:07:56,849 that's not that strange come on yeah 1485 01:07:59,720 --> 01:07:58,260 yeah what without 1486 01:08:02,870 --> 01:07:59,730 Steve what weather were there other 1487 01:08:05,150 --> 01:08:02,880 people in the in the point pleasant the 1488 01:08:09,050 --> 01:08:05,160 area while Mothman was being seen who 1489 01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:09,060 had encounters with the MIPS yes there's 1490 01:08:16,610 --> 01:08:12,090 a lady susan Shepherd who lives up in 1491 01:08:18,349 --> 01:08:16,620 parkersburg and she runs ghost tours up 1492 01:08:20,059 --> 01:08:18,359 there she talked about when she was a 1493 01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:20,069 little girl she was playing with a 1494 01:08:24,860 --> 01:08:21,810 friend of hers and they saw these 1495 01:08:26,780 --> 01:08:24,870 strange men come to their door that fit 1496 01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:26,790 the description description of a typical 1497 01:08:30,499 --> 01:08:29,040 MIB there were no cars or anything 1498 01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:30,509 around there and they just kind of hid 1499 01:08:37,999 --> 01:08:33,810 until they went away Jeff wamsley who 1500 01:08:39,769 --> 01:08:38,009 again he's one of the guys that well he 1501 01:08:43,490 --> 01:08:39,779 runs the Mothman museum and founded the 1502 01:08:46,550 --> 01:08:43,500 Mothman festival a lady came into the 1503 01:08:48,170 --> 01:08:46,560 Mothman museum one time and told him a 1504 01:08:50,660 --> 01:08:48,180 story that she had never told anybody 1505 01:08:53,870 --> 01:08:50,670 about these strange men that came to the 1506 01:08:58,490 --> 01:08:53,880 door of course Linda Scarberry their 1507 01:08:59,960 --> 01:08:58,500 family had man in dark clothing come to 1508 01:09:03,950 --> 01:08:59,970 their door she was the one they one of 1509 01:09:08,030 --> 01:09:03,960 the original person people that saw the 1510 01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:08,040 Mothman so a lot of people would see 1511 01:09:13,210 --> 01:09:10,170 these strangers in town and had and you 1512 01:09:15,440 --> 01:09:13,220 know what also some of them showed up in 1513 01:09:18,650 --> 01:09:15,450 can't remember was scary it was a 1514 01:09:20,150 --> 01:09:18,660 relative of hers I think I showed up as 1515 01:09:22,579 --> 01:09:20,160 one of these sort of bedroom and Vader 1516 01:09:25,849 --> 01:09:22,589 kind of things where it showed up by the 1517 01:09:28,970 --> 01:09:25,859 bed so there really is some kind of a 1518 01:09:31,220 --> 01:09:28,980 bizarre paranormal aspect I know the 1519 01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:31,230 keel one time wrote that he thought that 1520 01:09:35,780 --> 01:09:33,330 some of the MIB phenomena may even be 1521 01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:35,790 illusory but you know not that they were 1522 01:09:39,740 --> 01:09:37,170 totally illusions there was some 1523 01:09:42,019 --> 01:09:39,750 something really going on but they they 1524 01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:42,029 may not have been you know terribly 1525 01:09:47,990 --> 01:09:45,450 solid or flesh and blood well I remember 1526 01:09:50,510 --> 01:09:48,000 one time he described to me an incident 1527 01:09:52,849 --> 01:09:50,520 where he saw a UFO he was a among a 1528 01:09:55,490 --> 01:09:52,859 group about maybe five or six people and 1529 01:09:58,820 --> 01:09:55,500 he saw a completely different object 1530 01:10:01,100 --> 01:09:58,830 than the other races that were were with 1531 01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:01,110 him and yeah he did he did believe that 1532 01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:03,930 they well they are phantasms they are 1533 01:10:10,070 --> 01:10:06,810 specters or there's no doubt about it 1534 01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:10,080 you know even dr. J Allen Hynek who was 1535 01:10:14,780 --> 01:10:12,170 a pretty much thought of as a 1536 01:10:17,209 --> 01:10:14,790 as a nuts-and-bolts uh you know 1537 01:10:19,220 --> 01:10:17,219 researcher having a been employed by the 1538 01:10:21,709 --> 01:10:19,230 Air Force Project Blue Book and so forth 1539 01:10:24,530 --> 01:10:21,719 he told me one time about how he was 1540 01:10:27,530 --> 01:10:24,540 getting reports of the men in black and 1541 01:10:29,750 --> 01:10:27,540 he was taking them seriously he one case 1542 01:10:32,689 --> 01:10:29,760 I remember in particular involved a 1543 01:10:34,970 --> 01:10:32,699 police officer who started receiving you 1544 01:10:37,850 --> 01:10:34,980 know telephone calls that they had a UFO 1545 01:10:39,410 --> 01:10:37,860 sighting and so forth and was being you 1546 01:10:42,020 --> 01:10:39,420 know you usually think of police cars 1547 01:10:43,970 --> 01:10:42,030 following people on the highway or 1548 01:10:46,970 --> 01:10:43,980 something well he was being followed now 1549 01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:46,980 that's a that's a certainly a twist 1550 01:10:52,310 --> 01:10:49,770 there but he took the subject you know 1551 01:10:54,350 --> 01:10:52,320 very seriously and I guess would have 1552 01:10:56,450 --> 01:10:54,360 done more research into it maybe he did 1553 01:10:59,570 --> 01:10:56,460 but of course he you know passed away 1554 01:11:01,490 --> 01:10:59,580 and not but are you sure with any Jenny 1555 01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:01,500 Randall's the well-known british 1556 01:11:05,660 --> 01:11:02,730 researcher yeah you publish whatever 1557 01:11:06,979 --> 01:11:05,670 [\h__\h] what i did i did it yes she 1558 01:11:08,900 --> 01:11:06,989 wrote a book on the men in black and she 1559 01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:08,910 described him are we going to a 1560 01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:13,410 commercial we are yes we are and so what 1561 01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:16,170 we'll continue this conversation when we 1562 01:11:21,050 --> 01:11:18,090 come back from our break so you are 1563 01:11:24,110 --> 01:11:21,060 listening to exploring the bizarre with 1564 01:11:27,390 --> 01:11:24,120 tim beckley and of course to be right 1565 01:11:37,620 --> 01:11:30,820 the K cor digital Radio Network hotline 1566 01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:37,630 number is open at seven oh two 4259 2 3 1567 01:11:50,350 --> 01:11:45,770 07 02 4590 240 worldwide Polar's you 1568 01:11:54,250 --> 01:11:50,360 skype name k co are ready tweet your 1569 01:11:59,050 --> 01:11:54,260 comments anytime 2k cor radio or simply 1570 01:12:01,000 --> 01:11:59,060 use hashtag Casey yours even better jump 1571 01:12:04,899 --> 01:12:01,010 in the live chat room and share your 1572 01:12:09,010 --> 01:12:04,909 thoughts of the show at k cor radio com 1573 01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:09,020 now back to exploring the bizarre with 1574 01:12:14,919 --> 01:12:11,600 two of the most electrifying researchers 1575 01:12:28,390 --> 01:12:14,929 in the paranoid your hosts Timothy Becca 1576 01:12:30,850 --> 01:12:28,400 Lee and ting swathes so I may be talking 1577 01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,860 prematurely here but so far we've been 1578 01:12:35,290 --> 01:12:32,239 talking about the men in black and 1579 01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:35,300 black-eyed children and the the show is 1580 01:12:39,879 --> 01:12:37,250 held up I mean no so far no bad 1581 01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:39,889 connections no hang-ups no weird noises 1582 01:12:50,340 --> 01:12:44,810 over the line so I think so what's wrong 1583 01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:50,350 what are we doing wrong that's right hey 1584 01:12:57,430 --> 01:12:54,050 Steve Steve Ward you mentioned during 1585 01:13:01,390 --> 01:12:57,440 our break that you're having an ongoing 1586 01:13:04,300 --> 01:13:01,400 um interview uh you want to plug that 1587 01:13:07,510 --> 01:13:04,310 real quick here oh sure I mine Oh Brent 1588 01:13:09,970 --> 01:13:07,520 reigns he was on i'm at the Mothman 1589 01:13:11,590 --> 01:13:09,980 festival I've run the TNT tours now at 1590 01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:11,600 least I'm one of the guys there's three 1591 01:13:17,290 --> 01:13:14,330 wagons to go through and brent was on my 1592 01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:17,300 wagon and so he he asked me if I'd be 1593 01:13:20,110 --> 01:13:18,650 interested in doing an interview so 1594 01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:20,120 we've been doing a very long form 1595 01:13:24,820 --> 01:13:22,610 interview on his alternate perceptions 1596 01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:24,830 online magazine and it's been kind of 1597 01:13:28,660 --> 01:13:27,170 fun it's sort of the saga of how a kid 1598 01:13:31,300 --> 01:13:28,670 from Michigan fascinated by flying 1599 01:13:33,669 --> 01:13:31,310 saucers ended up giving tours in the TNT 1600 01:13:37,110 --> 01:13:33,679 area a half a century later so it's been 1601 01:13:39,420 --> 01:13:37,120 a lot of fun all right great well uh 1602 01:13:42,090 --> 01:13:39,430 lets you know we've been kind of 1603 01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:42,100 circling around the whole Mothman and 1604 01:13:47,420 --> 01:13:44,410 and and men in black and things like 1605 01:13:49,770 --> 01:13:47,430 that in the point pleasant areas so 1606 01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:49,780 Steve want to talk a little bit about 1607 01:13:57,150 --> 01:13:55,090 the what finally happened there Point 1608 01:13:59,790 --> 01:13:57,160 Pleasant with the whole silver bridge 1609 01:14:01,920 --> 01:13:59,800 incident I mean you know and that basic 1610 01:14:05,100 --> 01:14:01,930 I a lot of people probably have already 1611 01:14:06,420 --> 01:14:05,110 have forgotten about that or many of our 1612 01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:06,430 younger listeners probably have never 1613 01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:08,770 even heard about it well of course it 1614 01:14:13,460 --> 01:14:11,170 was what's 13 months the day of that 1615 01:14:17,490 --> 01:14:13,470 first sighting that the bridge collapsed 1616 01:14:20,370 --> 01:14:17,500 it was december 15 at about 5pm and it 1617 01:14:22,410 --> 01:14:20,380 was of course just before Christmas the 1618 01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:22,420 bridge was an old bridge that was built 1619 01:14:30,150 --> 01:14:26,130 i think around nineteen ten or twelve 1620 01:14:31,980 --> 01:14:30,160 they and it the people that witnessed it 1621 01:14:34,230 --> 01:14:31,990 it just collapsed like a series of 1622 01:14:37,110 --> 01:14:34,240 dominoes if you remember the film the 1623 01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:37,120 Mothman the john keel character has all 1624 01:14:40,860 --> 01:14:38,770 kinds of time to warn everybody to get 1625 01:14:43,830 --> 01:14:40,870 off the bridge but in the reality it 1626 01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:43,840 just happened in moments and 46 people 1627 01:14:50,340 --> 01:14:48,610 were lost as a result of that a lot of 1628 01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:50,350 people i mean there's there's people 1629 01:14:55,710 --> 01:14:52,450 that believe that the Mothman was kind 1630 01:14:57,930 --> 01:14:55,720 of a harbinger like a banshee warning 1631 01:14:59,820 --> 01:14:57,940 people that something was going to 1632 01:15:03,120 --> 01:14:59,830 happen others think there was no no 1633 01:15:04,950 --> 01:15:03,130 connection whatsoever but about that 1634 01:15:06,270 --> 01:15:04,960 time you know there was still sightings 1635 01:15:09,210 --> 01:15:06,280 of the Mothman occasionally there was 1636 01:15:11,660 --> 01:15:09,220 still UFOs but it did seem like all the 1637 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:11,670 weirdness that was going on did at least 1638 01:15:19,110 --> 01:15:15,970 subside to a large degree but that was 1639 01:15:22,830 --> 01:15:19,120 really that really hit the town hard and 1640 01:15:25,140 --> 01:15:22,840 it has taken them decades to recover 1641 01:15:27,750 --> 01:15:25,150 from it i think the i think that was the 1642 01:15:29,100 --> 01:15:27,760 people that started the festival we're 1643 01:15:31,050 --> 01:15:29,110 trying to turn something you know a 1644 01:15:33,420 --> 01:15:31,060 negative into a positive it really has 1645 01:15:37,710 --> 01:15:33,430 been good for the town but there's still 1646 01:15:39,750 --> 01:15:37,720 you know there are people that lost that 1647 01:15:40,830 --> 01:15:39,760 lost loved ones there and it's just 1648 01:15:43,440 --> 01:15:40,840 something I've never going to forget 1649 01:15:46,410 --> 01:15:43,450 well speaking of the festival I mean how 1650 01:15:49,290 --> 01:15:46,420 I remember what it when it first started 1651 01:15:50,910 --> 01:15:49,300 I mean how is it progressed since it's 1652 01:15:53,940 --> 01:15:50,920 not any it's a 1653 01:15:56,340 --> 01:15:53,950 it was very had very humble beginnings 1654 01:15:58,800 --> 01:15:56,350 but there are thousands of people that 1655 01:16:00,990 --> 01:15:58,810 filter through there like I say there's 1656 01:16:02,700 --> 01:16:01,000 22 days at the theatre the local theater 1657 01:16:05,450 --> 01:16:02,710 they have you know all these speakers 1658 01:16:07,950 --> 01:16:05,460 that are there you can you can go see 1659 01:16:10,650 --> 01:16:07,960 people you know go off independently and 1660 01:16:12,420 --> 01:16:10,660 like to explore the TNT area at the 1661 01:16:14,790 --> 01:16:12,430 daytime and at night there's a lot of 1662 01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:14,800 people that you know ghost hunters that 1663 01:16:22,250 --> 01:16:18,130 do a lot of EVP research out there the 1664 01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:22,260 real high point is the the hayride and 1665 01:16:28,110 --> 01:16:24,730 that's where it's a little bit like a 1666 01:16:30,870 --> 01:16:28,120 you know a haunted Halloween hayride but 1667 01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:30,880 you you are met when you first go in 1668 01:16:36,990 --> 01:16:34,090 when you buy the insidious men in black 1669 01:16:38,610 --> 01:16:37,000 and brent range joke that even the the 1670 01:16:40,770 --> 01:16:38,620 economy you know the downturn the 1671 01:16:42,630 --> 01:16:40,780 economy has affected the men in black 1672 01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:42,640 because instead of chasing us into the 1673 01:16:49,650 --> 01:16:45,760 TNT area in black Cadillacs they're 1674 01:16:52,410 --> 01:16:49,660 using golf carts but well you know and 1675 01:16:54,450 --> 01:16:52,420 how many how many people Steve attended 1676 01:16:56,370 --> 01:16:54,460 like this year's event it was something 1677 01:16:59,010 --> 01:16:56,380 I forget they know they they counted the 1678 01:17:01,230 --> 01:16:59,020 number of people that go into the it's 1679 01:17:03,540 --> 01:17:01,240 several thousand because they can count 1680 01:17:05,580 --> 01:17:03,550 at least the people that attend the 1681 01:17:07,950 --> 01:17:05,590 museum they get a decent count there 1682 01:17:11,820 --> 01:17:07,960 well I tell you when i was in that town 1683 01:17:14,310 --> 01:17:11,830 you could see tumbleweed going down Main 1684 01:17:18,980 --> 01:17:14,320 Street near milk it was it was that 1685 01:17:23,100 --> 01:17:18,990 quiet I mean I think we visited with oh 1686 01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:23,110 there was a a large five-and-dime chain 1687 01:17:30,060 --> 01:17:27,010 there Ben Franklin's I'm sure it doesn't 1688 01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:30,070 exist anymore now the kraymons is like a 1689 01:17:35,220 --> 01:17:33,250 hobby type of man oh okay well anyway 1690 01:17:38,370 --> 01:17:35,230 the fellow that I'm sure was running the 1691 01:17:41,190 --> 01:17:38,380 the Ben Franklin's there I told us about 1692 01:17:43,260 --> 01:17:41,200 the curse of chief cornstalks oh yes uh 1693 01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:43,270 yeah okay so let's see what you tell I 1694 01:17:48,900 --> 01:17:45,970 me some people you know they have a they 1695 01:17:50,850 --> 01:17:48,910 have a theory of why the Mothman was 1696 01:17:55,100 --> 01:17:50,860 seen it just didn't you know come out of 1697 01:17:58,290 --> 01:17:55,110 the the vapors so to speak well I think 1698 01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:58,300 the what I understand is now I met I 1699 01:18:03,480 --> 01:18:00,400 don't know how many greats but it's 1700 01:18:04,770 --> 01:18:03,490 something like Chief cornstalks go great 1701 01:18:08,729 --> 01:18:04,780 great great maybe seven 1702 01:18:10,620 --> 01:18:08,739 I met his granddaughter and according to 1703 01:18:13,109 --> 01:18:10,630 her and others that the the curse of 1704 01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:13,119 chief cornstalk was actually came out of 1705 01:18:19,290 --> 01:18:15,610 a play that was written in the possibly 1706 01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:19,300 the 1800s so it's very possible that you 1707 01:18:23,279 --> 01:18:20,650 know chief cornstalk of course was 1708 01:18:25,379 --> 01:18:23,289 murdered but and I wouldn't blame him 1709 01:18:29,330 --> 01:18:25,389 for uttering a word there's there's a 1710 01:18:33,029 --> 01:18:29,340 famous poem Tippecanoe and Tyler too 1711 01:18:35,220 --> 01:18:33,039 okay yeah III know remember but I I 1712 01:18:39,029 --> 01:18:35,230 remember Ray Ray Palmer published it in 1713 01:18:40,770 --> 01:18:39,039 his magazine ok I guess I don't know but 1714 01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:40,780 it's somehow it tightened it tied in 1715 01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:43,090 with the curse I'm not sure how it sorry 1716 01:18:47,970 --> 01:18:45,250 next time next time I'll do my research 1717 01:18:49,799 --> 01:18:47,980 but I've always the the point pleasant 1718 01:18:51,180 --> 01:18:49,809 area as just another area of high 1719 01:18:54,049 --> 01:18:51,190 strangeness you know you've got the 1720 01:18:56,939 --> 01:18:54,059 skinwalker ranch Marley woods the 1721 01:18:59,609 --> 01:18:56,949 Bridgewater triangle brand redbridge 1722 01:19:02,520 --> 01:18:59,619 bradshaw ranch right and the gilliland 1723 01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:02,530 ranch and it just seems like for 1724 01:19:06,270 --> 01:19:04,090 whatever reason there's certain areas 1725 01:19:08,549 --> 01:19:06,280 where all these things seem to tie 1726 01:19:10,649 --> 01:19:08,559 together somehow and the way they look 1727 01:19:13,709 --> 01:19:10,659 yeah go ahead i was one mention real 1728 01:19:15,510 --> 01:19:13,719 quick-- people if you go to the festival 1729 01:19:18,450 --> 01:19:15,520 you've got to go on a hayride it 1730 01:19:21,270 --> 01:19:18,460 culminates in a classic flyover of the 1731 01:19:23,490 --> 01:19:21,280 Mothman my friends john and tim Frick 1732 01:19:26,370 --> 01:19:23,500 are the men behind the curtain and you 1733 01:19:29,339 --> 01:19:26,380 will see the Mothman fly over your your 1734 01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:29,349 cart as you go by with a ear piercing 1735 01:19:35,279 --> 01:19:32,650 scream and the kids love it well the 1736 01:19:37,709 --> 01:19:35,289 adults live a two I can't wait Nick Nick 1737 01:19:42,540 --> 01:19:37,719 have you seen any you got any patterns 1738 01:19:44,430 --> 01:19:42,550 for us any what patterns you know like 1739 01:19:49,109 --> 01:19:44,440 is there any any similarities between 1740 01:19:51,810 --> 01:19:49,119 any of these cases oh yeah I mean you 1741 01:19:54,299 --> 01:19:51,820 know the the main thing I guess is the 1742 01:19:56,310 --> 01:19:54,309 sort of way in which the MIB pretty much 1743 01:19:58,950 --> 01:19:56,320 operate and that's where they're always 1744 01:20:00,600 --> 01:19:58,960 in control of the situation you know 1745 01:20:02,270 --> 01:20:00,610 like a briefly mentioned earlier that 1746 01:20:05,700 --> 01:20:02,280 most people wouldn't even think about 1747 01:20:07,260 --> 01:20:05,710 letting three creepy looking guys in the 1748 01:20:09,510 --> 01:20:07,270 house at midnight if you had a knock on 1749 01:20:12,359 --> 01:20:09,520 the door but they do you know so there's 1750 01:20:15,089 --> 01:20:12,369 definitely that aspect of the person 1751 01:20:17,410 --> 01:20:15,099 becoming under the influence of the MIB 1752 01:20:19,209 --> 01:20:17,420 which allows them in 1753 01:20:22,180 --> 01:20:19,219 and you know that there's a good point 1754 01:20:25,450 --> 01:20:22,190 brought up as well by Steve about how 1755 01:20:28,930 --> 01:20:25,460 some of the events almost seem to be 1756 01:20:30,669 --> 01:20:28,940 like a loose notary in nature it's not 1757 01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:30,679 in the sense of the person imagined it 1758 01:20:35,550 --> 01:20:33,770 but possibly as if the imagery of there 1759 01:20:37,780 --> 01:20:35,560 is a visit and everything else was 1760 01:20:39,220 --> 01:20:37,790 projected into the person's mind you 1761 01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:39,230 know somebody else was in the room with 1762 01:20:43,150 --> 01:20:41,210 them they might have seen the person 1763 01:20:45,700 --> 01:20:43,160 just SAT or mostly like a trance-like 1764 01:20:48,010 --> 01:20:45,710 state on the couch and nothing else at 1765 01:20:50,020 --> 01:20:48,020 all you know so easy to something that's 1766 01:20:53,290 --> 01:20:50,030 been projected that's a parallel 1767 01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:53,300 averting a number of cases but you know 1768 01:20:59,530 --> 01:20:56,330 it doesn't make it doesn't help us catch 1769 01:21:02,169 --> 01:20:59,540 the EMI be another elusive as ever and I 1770 01:21:04,330 --> 01:21:02,179 think that also comes down to the fact 1771 01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:04,340 there's a sort of paranormal factor that 1772 01:21:09,580 --> 01:21:06,530 this sort of here one minute and gone 1773 01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:09,590 the next minute then we go then we cut 1774 01:21:15,430 --> 01:21:13,010 10 we conjure him up well you know I 1775 01:21:17,950 --> 01:21:15,440 mean that's what beta Beckman suggested 1776 01:21:20,290 --> 01:21:17,960 that he done back in the 60 butthole 1777 01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:20,300 roses by everything he felt that blood 1778 01:21:27,070 --> 01:21:23,810 the mind setting the ability to sort of 1779 01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:27,080 open doors with hallucinogenics and the 1780 01:21:32,770 --> 01:21:29,570 soundtrack and everything was conducive 1781 01:21:35,530 --> 01:21:32,780 to something happening he felt that they 1782 01:21:38,140 --> 01:21:35,540 may manifest it because the 1783 01:21:39,910 --> 01:21:38,150 circumstances were right so and I think 1784 01:21:42,610 --> 01:21:39,920 you can find it we can find a number of 1785 01:21:45,459 --> 01:21:42,620 cases like that where somebody you know 1786 01:21:47,470 --> 01:21:45,469 is was was looking to have some sort of 1787 01:21:50,650 --> 01:21:47,480 experience and they had one so I think 1788 01:21:53,669 --> 01:21:50,660 it's you know that can happen when I 1789 01:21:56,740 --> 01:21:53,679 didn't I had teamed it now in Greenfield 1790 01:21:59,340 --> 01:21:56,750 write a book about calling up them in a 1791 01:22:02,140 --> 01:21:59,350 black well yes in fact some of his 1792 01:22:05,169 --> 01:22:02,150 material we utilize in our angel spells 1793 01:22:09,490 --> 01:22:05,179 a book he came up with a well a certain 1794 01:22:15,100 --> 01:22:09,500 cipher he's a investigated done research 1795 01:22:19,780 --> 01:22:15,110 on John oh come on John Dee John damn 1796 01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:19,790 yeah and Enochian alphabet yeah we've 1797 01:22:23,979 --> 01:22:22,489 had him on the other program and he yeah 1798 01:22:27,430 --> 01:22:23,989 he believes that you could actually find 1799 01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:27,440 patterns by by using this this decipher 1800 01:22:31,180 --> 01:22:29,810 that you can actually find patterns so 1801 01:22:34,450 --> 01:22:31,190 when maybe the men 1802 01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:34,460 black might appear or when the next a 1803 01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:38,449 UFO flap might be now Claudia you you 1804 01:22:43,060 --> 01:22:40,850 had some problems or incidences 1805 01:22:48,010 --> 01:22:43,070 involving inter interference on your 1806 01:22:51,220 --> 01:22:48,020 telephone right oh yes well one one 1807 01:22:54,220 --> 01:22:51,230 incident I was married in the mid-70s 1808 01:22:57,189 --> 01:22:54,230 and my husband was in law enforcement 1809 01:22:59,290 --> 01:22:57,199 and he was going nights so i would go to 1810 01:23:01,720 --> 01:22:59,300 bed early with a book probably some 1811 01:23:03,670 --> 01:23:01,730 scary thing that i was always so fond of 1812 01:23:06,910 --> 01:23:03,680 what what what one of my no doubt yes 1813 01:23:09,189 --> 01:23:06,920 yes uh-huh and actually i think it was 1814 01:23:11,970 --> 01:23:09,199 just one particular night it was a book 1815 01:23:16,229 --> 01:23:11,980 called phone calls from the dead oh yeah 1816 01:23:20,020 --> 01:23:16,239 did d scott Rogo right yeah yeah and 1817 01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:20,030 anyway I had the radio on and they were 1818 01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:22,370 interviewing Benny Hill you know the 1819 01:23:30,700 --> 01:23:26,570 famous UFO abductee and at that time she 1820 01:23:34,090 --> 01:23:30,710 was a widow Barney Hill had died and she 1821 01:23:35,740 --> 01:23:34,100 mentioned that whenever she spoke on one 1822 01:23:38,709 --> 01:23:35,750 of these radio interview is that her 1823 01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:38,719 phone would go crazy so of course me 1824 01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:41,360 with my vivid imagination I'm sitting 1825 01:23:45,340 --> 01:23:43,010 there and I thought well what if I hang 1826 01:23:47,229 --> 01:23:45,350 up and my phone rang and I heard all 1827 01:23:50,380 --> 01:23:47,239 this static because that's what she said 1828 01:23:53,410 --> 01:23:50,390 it was always static on her phone so I 1829 01:23:56,260 --> 01:23:53,420 hung it up and lo and behold the about 1830 01:23:58,240 --> 01:23:56,270 15 minutes later in my phone rang and it 1831 01:24:00,330 --> 01:23:58,250 was nothing but static on the phone and 1832 01:24:02,950 --> 01:24:00,340 I thought I'd have a heart attack and 1833 01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:02,960 and at the time you know i was reading 1834 01:24:10,270 --> 01:24:06,530 about UFOs and all this stuff so i think 1835 01:24:13,410 --> 01:24:10,280 when you developed a passionate interest 1836 01:24:17,350 --> 01:24:13,420 in anything to do with this i think a 1837 01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:17,360 portal from lack of a better term opens 1838 01:24:24,459 --> 01:24:20,570 and you're just experienced all kinds of 1839 01:24:27,070 --> 01:24:24,469 strange things i know i have and one 1840 01:24:30,250 --> 01:24:27,080 other thing that happened to me and this 1841 01:24:32,950 --> 01:24:30,260 is really strange but let's go back to 1842 01:24:35,140 --> 01:24:32,960 the 60s I was dating my husband and and 1843 01:24:38,590 --> 01:24:35,150 was probably about nineteen sixty seven 1844 01:24:40,930 --> 01:24:38,600 eight I was only a young kid and I would 1845 01:24:43,870 --> 01:24:40,940 drive into albany and meet him he got 1846 01:24:44,979 --> 01:24:43,880 out of work at midnight and we would 1847 01:24:47,229 --> 01:24:44,989 watch Johnny car 1848 01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:47,239 together at his disappearance house and 1849 01:24:50,919 --> 01:24:49,130 then I turn around and come home and I 1850 01:24:53,350 --> 01:24:50,929 was always terrified because I had to go 1851 01:24:56,290 --> 01:24:53,360 past the cemetery that was always a 1852 01:24:57,759 --> 01:24:56,300 spook me out and on the weekend my 1853 01:24:59,500 --> 01:24:57,769 mother and father would go out for 1854 01:25:01,029 --> 01:24:59,510 dinner and dancing or whatever and I was 1855 01:25:03,220 --> 01:25:01,039 always afraid to come home because this 1856 01:25:05,799 --> 01:25:03,230 is this field that's next to my house 1857 01:25:07,270 --> 01:25:05,809 and of course I was always imagining 1858 01:25:11,049 --> 01:25:07,280 that somebody would grab me or whatever 1859 01:25:13,089 --> 01:25:11,059 so this one night I came home and you 1860 01:25:15,700 --> 01:25:13,099 know my heart's kind of beating a little 1861 01:25:17,470 --> 01:25:15,710 bit and I thought oh god please let that 1862 01:25:20,140 --> 01:25:17,480 car be in the garage you know please 1863 01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:20,150 make my parents be home and they were 1864 01:25:25,149 --> 01:25:22,610 not so I pulled in and I thought well 1865 01:25:27,669 --> 01:25:25,159 this is stupid you know I'm 19 years old 1866 01:25:31,299 --> 01:25:27,679 I just run in the house lock the door 1867 01:25:33,759 --> 01:25:31,309 everything's going to be fine and so I 1868 01:25:37,930 --> 01:25:33,769 did and I ran in lock the door put the 1869 01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:37,940 light on on the mantel and I just I was 1870 01:25:43,450 --> 01:25:40,010 working for a New York telephone at the 1871 01:25:45,819 --> 01:25:43,460 time and we had just gotten a free phone 1872 01:25:47,319 --> 01:25:45,829 all the employees and I had a private 1873 01:25:50,229 --> 01:25:47,329 number i just got in the thing was a 1874 01:25:52,149 --> 01:25:50,239 pink phone i just loved it and I had it 1875 01:25:54,459 --> 01:25:52,159 in my bedroom and it was on a different 1876 01:25:57,910 --> 01:25:54,469 line than my parents phone which was in 1877 01:26:00,339 --> 01:25:57,920 the dining room and I think three people 1878 01:26:03,339 --> 01:26:00,349 had the the unlisted number and my 1879 01:26:05,169 --> 01:26:03,349 Dennis my boyfriend was one his sister 1880 01:26:07,089 --> 01:26:05,179 was another one and my friend Ann was 1881 01:26:09,700 --> 01:26:07,099 the third one if i remember correctly 1882 01:26:12,069 --> 01:26:09,710 and I like I said you know I had just 1883 01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:12,079 gotten the phone so no one in the 1884 01:26:17,259 --> 01:26:14,090 neighborhood would be able to call me or 1885 01:26:20,140 --> 01:26:17,269 really no one and my future husband was 1886 01:26:21,700 --> 01:26:20,150 a kind of a serious type guy he was the 1887 01:26:24,069 --> 01:26:21,710 one to play pranks or anything like that 1888 01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:24,079 so anyway I came in the house and my 1889 01:26:28,330 --> 01:26:27,050 phone was ringing and I thought gee who 1890 01:26:31,390 --> 01:26:28,340 could this be probably a wrong number 1891 01:26:34,419 --> 01:26:31,400 and I picked it up and it was a man it 1892 01:26:38,529 --> 01:26:34,429 was a crackly reception on the phone and 1893 01:26:41,859 --> 01:26:38,539 he sounded about 40 and he said Claudia 1894 01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:41,869 I said yes who is this and he said never 1895 01:26:45,819 --> 01:26:43,730 mind he said you just pulled in your 1896 01:26:48,459 --> 01:26:45,829 driveway do you know what I'm going to 1897 01:26:50,470 --> 01:26:48,469 do to you just like that and of course 1898 01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:50,480 I'm trying to plan in my mind how I'm 1899 01:26:54,129 --> 01:26:52,010 going to get out of the house you know 1900 01:26:55,569 --> 01:26:54,139 and I thought well a rundown seller I'll 1901 01:26:57,399 --> 01:26:55,579 go out the cellar door I'll run through 1902 01:26:58,550 --> 01:26:57,409 the field next to but your nearest 1903 01:27:03,620 --> 01:26:58,560 neighbor 1904 01:27:06,410 --> 01:27:03,630 the movie many times good oh okay well 1905 01:27:08,390 --> 01:27:06,420 then I heard him I heard the car pull in 1906 01:27:10,430 --> 01:27:08,400 and it was my mother and father and I 1907 01:27:12,110 --> 01:27:10,440 happen to think number one no one had 1908 01:27:15,260 --> 01:27:12,120 that number there were no cell phones 1909 01:27:17,690 --> 01:27:15,270 then there wasn't even a telephone booth 1910 01:27:19,940 --> 01:27:17,700 around here for somebody you know if 1911 01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:19,950 anybody had seen me pull in and called 1912 01:27:25,730 --> 01:27:22,770 me it was very remote out here it's kind 1913 01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:25,740 of desolate so I thought was that 1914 01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:28,050 because of my interest even back then 1915 01:27:32,630 --> 01:27:30,330 and reading about UFOs and everything so 1916 01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:32,640 yeah that that was another strange 1917 01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:36,810 episode of my strange life but i don't 1918 01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:39,210 know i think that you know once you open 1919 01:27:43,550 --> 01:27:41,130 that door you don't know who's going to 1920 01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:43,560 walk in and I think they feed on your 1921 01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:45,690 fear I was very afraid coming home that 1922 01:27:51,100 --> 01:27:48,330 night and I think they put on a good 1923 01:27:53,390 --> 01:27:51,110 show for me I always believed that 1924 01:27:56,210 --> 01:27:53,400 nothing to do with men in black but it 1925 01:27:59,900 --> 01:27:56,220 certainly was something to do with my I 1926 01:28:02,150 --> 01:27:59,910 think my my fear that night well how 1927 01:28:05,210 --> 01:28:02,160 about these these telephone calls though 1928 01:28:08,060 --> 01:28:05,220 I mean how how are they able to do that 1929 01:28:10,790 --> 01:28:08,070 I mean what what is it a real voice 1930 01:28:13,070 --> 01:28:10,800 behind it now I guess in Mothman a 1931 01:28:16,190 --> 01:28:13,080 prophecy well they kind of Indrid cold 1932 01:28:18,410 --> 01:28:16,200 who actually was part of woody 1933 01:28:20,030 --> 01:28:18,420 derenberger UFO experience that was the 1934 01:28:23,300 --> 01:28:20,040 spaceman that he's supposedly met but 1935 01:28:27,650 --> 01:28:23,310 somehow they managed to to work Indrid 1936 01:28:30,380 --> 01:28:27,660 cold in as the for the voice I guess the 1937 01:28:32,390 --> 01:28:30,390 voice on the telephone who's behind that 1938 01:28:34,940 --> 01:28:32,400 I mean is is this actually is it 1939 01:28:37,970 --> 01:28:34,950 pranksters a nip do you think or or is 1940 01:28:41,810 --> 01:28:37,980 there real entities or energies or how 1941 01:28:47,690 --> 01:28:41,820 do we account for this sort of 1942 01:28:50,330 --> 01:28:47,700 experience well I mean sure we don't you 1943 01:28:52,070 --> 01:28:50,340 know it is hard to 2-under 70 had warned 1944 01:28:54,050 --> 01:28:52,080 me I thought you had all the years 1945 01:28:56,810 --> 01:28:54,060 refocus other three books on the subject 1946 01:28:59,210 --> 01:28:56,820 and you don't have all the answers well 1947 01:29:01,520 --> 01:28:59,220 what I can say for sure is there are 1948 01:29:03,470 --> 01:29:01,530 many occasions people have seen the man 1949 01:29:06,940 --> 01:29:03,480 in black get these weird calls for very 1950 01:29:11,270 --> 01:29:06,950 often but Claudia said it's often static 1951 01:29:14,699 --> 01:29:11,280 weird noises hang-up calls 1952 01:29:16,410 --> 01:29:14,709 without a voice now obviously in this 1953 01:29:17,839 --> 01:29:16,420 particular case you know clearly there 1954 01:29:21,540 --> 01:29:17,849 was a voice at the end of the phone 1955 01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:21,550 however you know there's you can find 1956 01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:23,650 throughout various aspects of the UFO 1957 01:29:28,109 --> 01:29:26,050 phenomenon where you get electrical 1958 01:29:32,129 --> 01:29:28,119 interference and weird things going on 1959 01:29:34,109 --> 01:29:32,139 with cars engines you know radios all 1960 01:29:36,870 --> 01:29:34,119 sorts of things and I think the many 1961 01:29:39,930 --> 01:29:36,880 black aspect of this with phones he's 1962 01:29:41,879 --> 01:29:39,940 kind of linked with all this somehow but 1963 01:29:44,129 --> 01:29:41,889 one of the things I will admit is that 1964 01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:44,139 the the men in black aim is their 1965 01:29:50,219 --> 01:29:46,690 paranormal they seem to be sort of 1966 01:29:53,850 --> 01:29:50,229 eerily adept at finding people's phone 1967 01:29:55,739 --> 01:29:53,860 numbers and hassling them you know and 1968 01:29:57,449 --> 01:29:55,749 so you have this weird situation where 1969 01:30:01,049 --> 01:29:57,459 there's like a physical component but 1970 01:30:02,549 --> 01:30:01,059 then a paranormal components as well you 1971 01:30:05,339 --> 01:30:02,559 know it's like paranormal entities but 1972 01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:05,349 they're using phones which is you know a 1973 01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:07,449 really bizarre concept but that just 1974 01:30:15,149 --> 01:30:11,650 seemed to be what's going on once again 1975 01:30:18,029 --> 01:30:15,159 though I mean you have this connection 1976 01:30:21,899 --> 01:30:18,039 with the paranormal because you know 1977 01:30:24,779 --> 01:30:21,909 Claudia your phone call sounds a lot 1978 01:30:26,370 --> 01:30:24,789 like these and we referred to it like 1979 01:30:28,739 --> 01:30:26,380 you know phone calls from the dead you 1980 01:30:30,180 --> 01:30:28,749 know people who get you know telephone 1981 01:30:32,339 --> 01:30:30,190 calls from somebody that they know has 1982 01:30:33,810 --> 01:30:32,349 passed away you know quite a while back 1983 01:30:37,379 --> 01:30:33,820 yet there they are calling them on the 1984 01:30:40,259 --> 01:30:37,389 phone right I have a theory and I think 1985 01:30:42,149 --> 01:30:40,269 it's some kind of again I use the word 1986 01:30:44,910 --> 01:30:42,159 demonic because you know like whatever 1987 01:30:48,330 --> 01:30:44,920 they are some negative energy that poses 1988 01:30:49,979 --> 01:30:48,340 as your relative or friend I don't I 1989 01:30:51,569 --> 01:30:49,989 don't believe dead people can call you 1990 01:30:55,759 --> 01:30:51,579 up from the other side I just think it's 1991 01:30:59,250 --> 01:30:55,769 silly but I think entities can mimic 1992 01:31:01,890 --> 01:30:59,260 voices of of dead people and I think 1993 01:31:03,689 --> 01:31:01,900 that you know that's mediums I think 1994 01:31:05,549 --> 01:31:03,699 that's what's going on there I don't 1995 01:31:08,699 --> 01:31:05,559 believe they call up the dead I don't 1996 01:31:10,949 --> 01:31:08,709 believe that for a minute no well that's 1997 01:31:12,810 --> 01:31:10,959 what you know that's what John keel was 1998 01:31:15,540 --> 01:31:12,820 saying in mothman prophecies I mean he 1999 01:31:18,169 --> 01:31:15,550 would receive phone calls that you know 2000 01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:18,179 claimed to be from people that he knew 2001 01:31:22,949 --> 01:31:21,610 yet afterwards you know they they 2002 01:31:24,750 --> 01:31:22,959 wouldn't acknowledge that the bay the 2003 01:31:26,910 --> 01:31:24,760 guy I know he said the one of them 2004 01:31:29,610 --> 01:31:26,920 you know sounded like grey Barker now 2005 01:31:32,610 --> 01:31:29,620 knowing the way that gray liked to play 2006 01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:32,620 practical jokes it could very well have 2007 01:31:40,050 --> 01:31:37,570 been gray doing that one no one short 2008 01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:40,060 story and it only take a second my 2009 01:31:46,110 --> 01:31:43,690 sister-in-law took care of a neighbor 2010 01:31:48,150 --> 01:31:46,120 who had cancer she was an old lady she 2011 01:31:51,030 --> 01:31:48,160 was kind of strange from her family and 2012 01:31:53,520 --> 01:31:51,040 the lady died and daddy is that one too 2013 01:31:55,770 --> 01:31:53,530 it has no interest in this stuff but she 2014 01:31:57,930 --> 01:31:55,780 did tell me she said one time after this 2015 01:32:00,330 --> 01:31:57,940 lady died her phone rang after dinner 2016 01:32:02,850 --> 01:32:00,340 she was doing the dishes and the woman 2017 01:32:05,430 --> 01:32:02,860 said daddy this is Margaret I want to 2018 01:32:06,630 --> 01:32:05,440 thank you for all your help and the 2019 01:32:10,140 --> 01:32:06,640 phone went dead she said it was 2020 01:32:13,700 --> 01:32:10,150 absolutely her so who knows that's 2021 01:32:19,770 --> 01:32:17,010 strange world that really is so now I 2022 01:32:21,660 --> 01:32:19,780 steve is there anything has there been 2023 01:32:26,190 --> 01:32:21,670 anything going on in Point Pleasant 2024 01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:26,200 these you know right now that's unusual 2025 01:32:31,950 --> 01:32:28,810 well I you know we have kind of an 2026 01:32:33,540 --> 01:32:31,960 informal sort of an official title for 2027 01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:33,550 an informal group the Mothman our 2028 01:32:38,100 --> 01:32:35,770 regulars and that was a name was dubbed 2029 01:32:40,170 --> 01:32:38,110 by rose mary ellen guiley we do go down 2030 01:32:43,410 --> 01:32:40,180 sometimes in November and other times 2031 01:32:46,020 --> 01:32:43,420 you know as beyond the regular festival 2032 01:32:49,830 --> 01:32:46,030 one night we were a group of us were 2033 01:32:52,890 --> 01:32:49,840 down there on 11 11 11 at eleven eleven 2034 01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:52,900 pm down at the TNT area and we were 2035 01:32:56,820 --> 01:32:54,730 trying to do the EVP thing and whatever 2036 01:32:59,370 --> 01:32:56,830 in today it's a long story but to make 2037 01:33:01,320 --> 01:32:59,380 it very short both rosemary and another 2038 01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:01,330 lady started they're both sensitive and 2039 01:33:04,650 --> 01:33:02,890 they started picking up on they were 2040 01:33:06,930 --> 01:33:04,660 getting the impression of some kind of 2041 01:33:09,750 --> 01:33:06,940 shadow people or shadow being and 2042 01:33:11,820 --> 01:33:09,760 another gentleman we were with who had 2043 01:33:13,950 --> 01:33:11,830 been in the chi interior once before and 2044 01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:13,960 become nauseous because something weird 2045 01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:16,570 was going on there he experienced a bout 2046 01:33:20,820 --> 01:33:18,730 of nausea so you had two people 2047 01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:20,830 independently picking up sort of the 2048 01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:23,410 same I don't know psychic vibe and a 2049 01:33:27,890 --> 01:33:25,810 third individual that was becoming you 2050 01:33:31,500 --> 01:33:27,900 know it was having a physical effect and 2051 01:33:33,450 --> 01:33:31,510 that was in the dead of night in the TNT 2052 01:33:35,220 --> 01:33:33,460 area one night so there's a there's a 2053 01:33:37,410 --> 01:33:35,230 lot of stuff going on not necessarily 2054 01:33:38,580 --> 01:33:37,420 directly related to I mean the whole 2055 01:33:40,860 --> 01:33:38,590 area is sort of a 2056 01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:40,870 bad for weirdness so I don't you know 2057 01:33:44,460 --> 01:33:42,850 people still occasionally will report 2058 01:33:46,740 --> 01:33:44,470 something like a moth man creature or 2059 01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:46,750 whatever and certainly you know still 2060 01:33:51,900 --> 01:33:49,690 see strange lights in the sky I even had 2061 01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:51,910 a weird experience one night I went in 2062 01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:54,610 there alone after my friends john and 2063 01:33:58,260 --> 01:33:55,930 tim left I just wanted to see if I had 2064 01:34:01,800 --> 01:33:58,270 the you know intestinal fortitude to do 2065 01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:01,810 it and I just went into one of the 2066 01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:04,090 igloos and looked around and and then 2067 01:34:08,010 --> 01:34:05,890 went back to my motel room across the 2068 01:34:10,020 --> 01:34:08,020 river well the moment I walked in my 2069 01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:10,030 room now it was a couple weird flashes 2070 01:34:14,430 --> 01:34:12,370 of light that i experienced driving back 2071 01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:14,440 nothing happened in the teens here what 2072 01:34:19,380 --> 01:34:16,210 well you know we're going to have to 2073 01:34:21,180 --> 01:34:19,390 keep that information top secret because 2074 01:34:22,790 --> 01:34:21,190 we're running out of time which is 2075 01:34:25,710 --> 01:34:22,800 unfortunate because it's been a great 2076 01:34:28,950 --> 01:34:25,720 conversation Nick give us the titles of 2077 01:34:31,500 --> 01:34:28,960 your books on the men in black on the 2078 01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:31,510 trial of the sorcerer spies the real men 2079 01:34:35,430 --> 01:34:33,250 in black and the brand new one just come 2080 01:34:37,950 --> 01:34:35,440 out men in black personal stories and 2081 01:34:40,470 --> 01:34:37,960 eerie adventures and a hell of a lot of 2082 01:34:42,660 --> 01:34:40,480 more books than that mine is the UFO 2083 01:34:45,060 --> 01:34:42,670 silencers and the men in black UFO 2084 01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:45,070 terrorists among us Steve how do people 2085 01:34:49,950 --> 01:34:46,930 find out more about the Mothman 2086 01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:49,960 festivals uh there's a Mothman festival 2087 01:34:54,780 --> 01:34:52,810 website you can easily go there Google 2088 01:34:57,180 --> 01:34:54,790 lathers photographs from past festivals 2089 01:34:58,890 --> 01:34:57,190 and gives you a list of past speakers 2090 01:35:01,440 --> 01:34:58,900 and there's there's you know all kinds 2091 01:35:03,660 --> 01:35:01,450 of good stuff there well good enough and 2092 01:35:06,030 --> 01:35:03,670 Claudia you and I are going to get 2093 01:35:09,690 --> 01:35:06,040 together a very soon hopefully for a 2094 01:35:11,490 --> 01:35:09,700 good old-fashioned ghost hunt I think we 2095 01:35:13,380 --> 01:35:11,500 should conjure up charles fort that's 2096 01:35:16,050 --> 01:35:13,390 what I think well I I think that's a 2097 01:35:17,310 --> 01:35:16,060 great I maybe we'll do a remote Broadway 2098 01:35:19,380 --> 01:35:17,320 I know we can't get into the cemetery 2099 01:35:21,810 --> 01:35:19,390 after dork I think we'd have to deal 2100 01:35:24,900 --> 01:35:21,820 with the people floating around in their 2101 01:35:28,140 --> 01:35:24,910 pajamas which is not a bad idea but you 2102 01:35:29,670 --> 01:35:28,150 know what the heck and Tim what he 2103 01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:29,680 working on I know what you're working on 2104 01:35:34,980 --> 01:35:32,410 your working on a book about psychic 2105 01:35:36,570 --> 01:35:34,990 phenomena that's right we're gonna we're 2106 01:35:39,060 --> 01:35:36,580 going to keep a top secret right now 2107 01:35:41,670 --> 01:35:39,070 because it's going to be a big surprise 2108 01:35:44,100 --> 01:35:41,680 once it comes out all right well there's 2109 01:35:46,380 --> 01:35:44,110 lots of surprises and don't forget alots 2110 01:35:48,150 --> 01:35:46,390 of surprises there always is unexplored 2111 01:35:52,230 --> 01:35:48,160 the bazaar and don't forget our 2112 01:35:52,650 --> 01:35:52,240 conspiracy journal and we've got some 2113 01:35:54,750 --> 01:35:52,660 interest 2114 01:35:57,210 --> 01:35:54,760 shows coming up on the December third 2115 01:35:59,820 --> 01:35:57,220 we're going to have Joshua P Warren and 2116 01:36:05,730 --> 01:35:59,830 we're going to be discussing crumpets 2117 01:36:08,430 --> 01:36:05,740 who is the the the dark image of Santa 2118 01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:08,440 Claus and we got paulino coming back on 2119 01:36:14,190 --> 01:36:10,570 we've got shows up poltergeist we've got 2120 01:36:17,070 --> 01:36:14,200 programs on cryptozoology this is the 2121 01:36:19,950 --> 01:36:17,080 good old-fashioned paranormal type of 2122 01:36:23,220 --> 01:36:19,960 program here we don't throw in politics 2123 01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:23,230 we don't talk about the the Federal 2124 01:36:35,220 --> 01:36:31,350 you've been listening to exploring the 2125 01:36:38,490 --> 01:36:35,230 bizarre with hosts Timothy Becky and T 2126 01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:38,500 Swartz they're taking back the night by 2127 01:36:43,950 --> 01:36:41,050 jetting non-stop across the cosmos in 2128 01:36:47,740 --> 01:36:43,960 search of the truly bizarre and totally 2129 01:36:50,700 --> 01:36:47,750 unexplained with you as their cold 2130 01:36:55,550 --> 01:36:50,710 thursday nights at seven p.m. pacific 2131 01:36:58,560 --> 01:36:55,560 10pm mr. on the K cor digital radio 2132 01:37:01,890 --> 01:36:58,570 for more information on exploring the 2133 01:37:04,710 --> 01:37:01,900 bazaar and hosts Timothy Becky and Tim's 2134 01:37:07,830 --> 01:37:04,720 walks check out there K cor digital 2135 01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:07,840 radio network follow their youtube